Do you actually believe that one has to be male in order to have noticed that puberty and testosterone has a certain effect on young males?
When I offer my opinions on this topic my opinions are largely based on my academic knowledge gained by having a degree relevant to this topic coupled with more than ten years experience as a law enforcement officer. Chances are that I've met and interviewed/interrogated many more perpetrators of sexual crimes than the majority of folks on this board and likely met more victims of sexual crimes as well (unless you happen to work in a nursing specialty care for/treat rape victims regularly). It stands to reason that I have read more scientific research on the subject of crime and the individuals who commit them.
I honestly think that this concern that more women will be accosted/attacked in public restrooms due to allowing transgenered individuals access is simply a way for an individual to try to justify their standpoint and convince themselves that their own preconceived notions and biases are in fact rational and have a factual foundation.
As another poster has already mentioned, women are much more likely to be sexually assaulted by someone they know. A spouse or a boyfriend or an ex-spouse/boyfriend and dates as well as casual acquaintances are common as perpetrators, complete strangers in public restrooms is a much smaller percentage of offenders.
Sorry, but women are naive to think their daughters are safe in a locker room.
Naive? Hardly. It's not even possible after having done what I have for a living.
A bit of a tangent, but I must admit I am slightly irked by this fixation on female victims of crime and the focus on the assailant always being of the opposite sex. Men and young men or boys can certainly be attacked too. Based on my experience and knowledge I would actually worry more about my young son if he used a mens' public restroom, than my daughter using the ladies'.
A teenage boy, given today's social acceptance of trans and LGBT issues will not hesitate to use this as a way to get into the girl's LOCKER ROOM.
First of all I think that you're overestimating the level of acceptance in society. I doubt that most teenage boys will be comfortable to have the reputation in school of being transgendered just to be able to sneak a peek at the girls in the locker room. Adolescent boys have in the past managed to sneak into the locker room if they wished to, they don't need this as an excuse.
Having the media shove their agenda for the 0.2% people will endanger a far greater percentage.
You don't know this at all. You might believe this to be true or you may fear that this is true, but you don't have the facts to support this claim.
Especially because nothing is really going to change for the transgendered, they just want to be accepted, so others safety doesn't matter to them.
How exactly have you determined the level of concern that individual transgendered persons have for the safety of other human beings? How do you know that they don't care? Do all transgendered persons share the exact same opinion? Aren't they individuals with different opinions, just like the rest of us?
I wouldn't doubt that some may secretly desire a payback for the persecution that they have received.
Am I reading this correctly? Do you actually think that transgendered individuals hope that other people will get assaulted or even raped as payback? I hope I have misunderstood.
All of them are men who pretended to be women in order to have access to women in bathrooms. They weren't transgender or pretending to be transgender.
The policy is that one can use a bathroom they identify with, not they they claim to or pretend to be transgender. That is just one part of the policy that makes it dangerous.
Food for thought... Gender is an absolute. You are male or female, it is a scientific fact (DNA is not changed). How is it discrimination against a boy to make him use the boys facility? If he identifies as a dog will you allow him to bark in class, urinate in the hallway? If he identifies as a lion does he get to attack and maul another student? Because the current situation is not based on allowing someone who has been diagnosed as absolutely being transgender, but based on someone who identifies as the opposite sex. Where was common sense lost?
Out of approximately 320 million Americans. So yes, small numbers.
I don't know if you didn't understand my question or if you've simply chosen not to answer it.
Of course I know the population of the US. I specifically included a link to the "population clock" to demonstrate how I'd arrived at the number of 135,000.
I asked you whether a group of 135,000 human beings is small or not. I didn't ask if 135,000 out of +300 million is a small percentage or not. The answer to that particular question was already glaringly obvious in the "i in 2,400", and hardly one I needed to ask.
The second question I asked was whether it's the size of a group of human beings that dictate which rights and obligations (legal, ethical, human) they have? Do we as a society use the group's relative size as the deciding criterion???
I have a new question for you.
1 in 2,400 Americans who have a belief system (that's all that it is as they cannot literally change their sex -- best is cosmetic surgery that still doesn't change their DNA)
You've expressed this in different ways on half a dozen different occasions in this thread. I'm curious why you keep repeating this. No one here is arguing that hormone therapy or surgery alters DNA. Noone. Why the need to hammer this point home? Is it relevant to the question of which restroom a person uses?
While using a public restroom, one seldom sees the genitalia of other people. Folks tend to close (and lock) the door to the stall. I've asked you which bearing the ability to produce sperm or ovulate has on public restroom visits as I don't understand it. Care to clarify?
I tried to explain why the ratio 1 in 2,400 doesn't necessarily mean that you have to make thousands of visits to a public restroom in order to share it with a transgendered individual. Chances are that you already have shared a restroom on one or several occasions, you simply weren't aware how the person behind the locked door looked like in the nether regions and it likely didn't affect you in any way.
Food for thought... Gender is an absolute. You are male or female, it is a scientific fact (DNA is not changed). How is it discrimination against a boy to make him use the boys facility? If he identifies as a dog will you allow him to bark in class, urinate in the hallway? If he identifies as a lion does he get to attack and maul another student? Because the current situation is not based on allowing someone who has been diagnosed as absolutely being transgender, but based on someone who identifies as the opposite sex. Where was common sense lost?
What about my child with CAH? Does every baby now need a DNA test? Is that what you're suggesting?
Nurses are life long students of nursing science. Through nursing and medical science we already know sex change operations do not change one's DNA / chromosomes. A male who goes into surgery to be made to look like (not become) a female will not menstruate, ovulate, or be able to bear children. A female who has surgery to be made to look like (not become) a male will not be able to produce viable sperm to impregnate a female
(and keep in mind they still have the exact same biological sex -- DNA / chromosomes -- if they have a cosmetic operation to look like the opposite sex).
2,400 transgenders who desire to look like the opposite sex (they cannot become the opposite sex -- only look the part, even with surgery). .
pmabraham, can you please allow this thread to go back to, and remain, on topic? This is the school nurses' forum, and the topic is ONLY regarding public schools. (See the thread title and OP if this is confusing.)
These are the two concerns I have. Maybe a highschool boy does identify as female. I highly doubt he has had reassignment surgery at such a young age. That being said, my 14 year old daughter shouldn't have to see his member in the locker room shower even though she is perfectly safe. Also, I worry about the girl who decides to exercise this right by using the boy's bathroom or locker room. Thinking she is "one of the guys" can be really unsafe for her, considering how often a group of young people together can result in really poor decision making. A single non-gendered bathroom with shower seems like such a better option to me, as I realize it can be bad for a male who identifies as female to use the boys bathroom as well, due to bullying.
I don't think that is the concern, it is the sexual predators SAYING they self identify. Let's face it, real trans have used their self identified restrooms all along, no problems, but by making a huge deal of it, you have given a free ticket to the opportunists to "self identify" for more than just identification reasons.
I didn't mean to like this..(on my iPhone)
Sexual predators are NOT going to use his as a "free pass" to assault...sexual predators have no recourse during the bathroom assignment now...that's not going to change
I've been in places in my own area where they have gender neutral bathrooms, like the family restrooms and a restroom at a restaurant...I went to the bathroom side by side with a male-he was more demure than me and I could care less-we eve made small talk about the bands playing.
Neither of us was assaulted by a sexual predator.
As for the thread, I think that providing a safe space is what school nurses do.
This is a tough subject as many of us with concerns think carefully about posting because sometimes there is an automatic rush to judge some commenters. I truly think there are legit concerns.
There is no "school nurse" office in my district except at the D.O. I rarely saw a student there; it was where I did my "paperwork" part of the job. There are 11 campuses and no school nurse bathroom.
As far as I know, there are no kids who are TG here but I do know one who graduated a long time ago who as an adult, transgendered from male to female. So, you never know.
We are an older school district so our buildings won't accommodate the thought below but it isn't a bad idea.
A single non-gendered bathroom with shower seems like such a better option to me, as I realize it can be bad for a male who identifies as female to use the boys bathroom as well, due to bullying
macawake, MSN
2,141 Posts
Do you actually believe that one has to be male in order to have noticed that puberty and testosterone has a certain effect on young males?
When I offer my opinions on this topic my opinions are largely based on my academic knowledge gained by having a degree relevant to this topic coupled with more than ten years experience as a law enforcement officer. Chances are that I've met and interviewed/interrogated many more perpetrators of sexual crimes than the majority of folks on this board and likely met more victims of sexual crimes as well (unless you happen to work in a nursing specialty care for/treat rape victims regularly). It stands to reason that I have read more scientific research on the subject of crime and the individuals who commit them.
I honestly think that this concern that more women will be accosted/attacked in public restrooms due to allowing transgenered individuals access is simply a way for an individual to try to justify their standpoint and convince themselves that their own preconceived notions and biases are in fact rational and have a factual foundation.
As another poster has already mentioned, women are much more likely to be sexually assaulted by someone they know. A spouse or a boyfriend or an ex-spouse/boyfriend and dates as well as casual acquaintances are common as perpetrators, complete strangers in public restrooms is a much smaller percentage of offenders.
Naive? Hardly. It's not even possible after having done what I have for a living.
A bit of a tangent, but I must admit I am slightly irked by this fixation on female victims of crime and the focus on the assailant always being of the opposite sex. Men and young men or boys can certainly be attacked too. Based on my experience and knowledge I would actually worry more about my young son if he used a mens' public restroom, than my daughter using the ladies'.
First of all I think that you're overestimating the level of acceptance in society. I doubt that most teenage boys will be comfortable to have the reputation in school of being transgendered just to be able to sneak a peek at the girls in the locker room. Adolescent boys have in the past managed to sneak into the locker room if they wished to, they don't need this as an excuse.
You don't know this at all. You might believe this to be true or you may fear that this is true, but you don't have the facts to support this claim.
How exactly have you determined the level of concern that individual transgendered persons have for the safety of other human beings? How do you know that they don't care? Do all transgendered persons share the exact same opinion? Aren't they individuals with different opinions, just like the rest of us?
Am I reading this correctly? Do you actually think that transgendered individuals hope that other people will get assaulted or even raped as payback? I hope I have misunderstood.