Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
Food for thought... Gender is an absolute. You are male or female, it is a scientific fact (DNA is not changed). How is it discrimination against a boy to make him use the boys facility? If he identifies as a dog will you allow him to bark in class, urinate in the hallway? If he identifies as a lion does he get to attack and maul another student? Because the current situation is not based on allowing someone who has been diagnosed as absolutely being transgender, but based on someone who identifies as the opposite sex. Where was common sense lost?
Actually, gender is not an absolute. That is a misconception.
I don't think they have to "act" as anything. They can just waltz in. Who's going to challenge them? Unless you think the stigma of being transgendered will keep them honest. What do I know?
I think if a teenage boy is that hell bent on "waltzing in" and/or causing trouble he's going to do so regardless. Why bother with the trouble of a label if you're just going to break the rules anyway?
Thinking on my teenage boy and his gang of friends ... They can't even talk to a girl without blushing, and now they're going to pretend to be something they're not, risking their sense of identity development, just to get a peek?
One of the students at my former school was transgendered. It was hell on wheels for her. I can't imagine any teen risking that stigma for any potential benefit.
I don't want to hash out more than what other people have said because there have been some excellent points made but wanted to point out two inaccuracies made earlier:
1. That men cannot birth children. There have been documented cases of donated uteruses to women without them that have successfully gave birth (via csection). Only successful in Europe so far and a failed case in Cleveland. I suspect that transgender women are not far behind.
2. That gender is only male or female. This is simply not true. There are people born as intersex, meaning they don't fit with the typical XX or XY chromosome pattern. They may have XXY or another variation with both testes and ovaries. The common practice is to now allow the child to grow up to see if they identify with a certain gender than assigning one at birth.
Spidey's mom, I looked at which posts in this thread you have "liked" and it gives me a clue as to which side of the debate you agree with. You of course, just as anyone else, is entitled to have your opinion on this.
What I don't understand is why you feel that posters are being judged when in reality they are being called out on the fact that they try to present their own personal beliefs and opinions as fact.
I know that you are a staunch supporter of the scientific method. You and I have spent enough time together in various threads on vaccinations to know that we both trust in science. This is why I'm a bit confused that you can't see the parallel here. Just like "anti-vaxxers" have their convictions despite having no scientific support for their standpoint, some posters here exhibit the exact same tendency.
Ah . . .the "likes" . . . Farawyn, you got me into trouble.
I do appreciate your posts macawake and yes, we are on the same page when it comes to the scientific method.
I do think this issue has been blown out of proportion on both sides and as noted, it will be hard to reach a compromise.
I do think it would be very hard for a known-male who is *transgendering* into a female to have to walk into a male bathroom. He (she) would be at risk for being verbally or physically attacked. The reverse could happen too as I've seen some women who could strip paint off the wall with their caustic comments.
I have relatives (male) who are very vocal about their dislike regarding this and also those who are completely opposite. Both get very ugly when commenting.
All I'm saying is there needs to be a way to address this in schools without making a huge mess out of it.
(I'm just giving Far, my friend, a hard time due to a long-ago discussion).
Bam. With all due respect, you are not male. A teenage boy, given today's social acceptance of trans and LGBT issues will not hesitate to use this as a way to get into the girl's LOCKER ROOM. This is where he can enjoy the sights. Have you noticed that the ones here who think it will be abused are men, we know how we think. I wouldn't put myself past doing this if I were a teenager now. Sorry, but women are naive to think their daughters are safe in a locker room.
MrNurse, I ask this with no snark intended: do you truly think you could see yourself using this as a way to head on into the girls locker room if you were a teen now?
Obviously, I don't know you from Eve. But did I go to high school on another planet? Do I know all the wrong people? I have 3 brothers; they all agree that they would never have decided to use being transgendered as an excuse to head on into territory unknown, despite today's growing acceptance of being so -- it's simply not *that* embraced. My husband thinks no peek would be that great to risk identity confusion from the opposite sex -- one wants to eventually find a girlfriend, no? Why ruin a future "casanova's" reputation by being something you're not, something that is still fairly stigmatized?
And again, I look at my own son, and his friends, and I see gangly, socially awkward teens who occasionally wear too much cologne in hopes of impressing the opposite sex, but despite looking as confident as one can, still blush and stutter when speaking to a member of the opposite sex.
The teenage boys that I see are pretty desperate to fit in.
I do think it would be very hard for a known-male who is *transgendering* into a female to have to walk into a male bathroom. He (she) would be at risk for being verbally or physically attacked. The reverse could happen too as I've seen some women who could strip paint off the wall with their caustic comments.
I agree. I have on more than one occasion witnessed firsthand the result when some poor person has been beaten and kicked into a bloody pulp by multiple assailants for no other reason than their sexual orientation or gender identity. I live in a relatively tolerant society, still these things happen. The mere thought of that level of intolerance, hatred and cowardice makes my blood boil.
I fear much more for the safety and happiness for individuals who don't conform to "the norm" than I fear that allowing access to bathrooms/restrooms will put the "non-transgendered" part of the population at risk for an increased rate of sexual assaults.
Bam. With all due respect, you are not male. A teenage boy, given today's social acceptance of trans and LGBT issues will not hesitate to use this as a way to get into the girl's LOCKER ROOM. This is where he can enjoy the sights. Have you noticed that the ones here who think it will be abused are men, we know how we think. I wouldn't put myself past doing this if I were a teenager now. Sorry, but women are naive to think their daughters are safe in a locker room.
I think it is utterly horrifying to believe a teenaged boy is, by default, a predatory opportunist just waiting for an open window to assault girls.
I think it is utterly horrifying to believe a teenaged boy is, by default, a predatory opportunist just waiting for an open window to assault girls.
Thank you for saying this.
It has not crossed my mind that my son would use a transgender label to sneak into the girls locker room. Why? He knows right from wrong. And he knows damn well that there would be some major butt kicking if he did anything to the contrary.
He has been taught to respect women. To respect others. His manners and values don't suddenly disappear when given an apparent opening. It's not like suddenly announcing he's transgender is going to go unnoticed by this mom.
Why can't we just call that "normal", does anyone else see the lunacy in all this?
To say that cisgendered is "normal" implies that being transgendered is "abnormal." A lot of people disagree with that characterization (some might even consider it lunacy).
To say that cisgendered is "normal" implies that being transgendered is "abnormal." A lot of people disagree with that characterization (some might even consider it lunacy).
You know what I find interesting? I discussed the transgender bathroom issue with my 14 year old son. He has a transgender classmate. His feeling basically is "no big deal." He said he and his friends couldn't care less who uses what bathroom.
Meanwhile, the adults are losing their minds....Maybe everyone should slow their roll so the young people can take a cue from us.
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TriciaJ, RN
4,328 Posts
Actually, gender is not an absolute. That is a misconception.