Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
Food for thought... Gender is an absolute. You are male or female, it is a scientific fact (DNA is not changed). How is it discrimination against a boy to make him use the boys facility? If he identifies as a dog will you allow him to bark in class, urinate in the hallway? If he identifies as a lion does he get to attack and maul another student? Because the current situation is not based on allowing someone who has been diagnosed as absolutely being transgender, but based on someone who identifies as the opposite sex. Where was common sense lost?
Sorry for the continued derailment, but I just can't even...
So, back to the topic of students... Nothing wrong with having a single-person restroom similar to the family restroom option. After all, many facilities offer family restrooms for when dads take their daughters or moms take their sons.
I know that a lot of people, mostly adults, are disgusted by this new policy, but let me clarify that its nothing new to public schools. Growing up in school, especially high school, I've seen established transgender students went to the restroom the way each identify themselves as. There we're about 6 students in at my school that was actually transgender student who came to school everyday looking like the opposite birth sex. They pretty much got along with everyone, and used the restroom. Some of the transgender girls were typically bullied by the older boys, calling them names and threats, but they didn't take it to an extreme level because they know who they were as and didn't allow outsiders to worry them down. I think with kids its more different from adults. For one with the new generation, the acceptance for lgbt students has been high from decades ago, and lgbt students are more involved with other students, as well as the students being more open to them as well. Very few of them went to the clinic to go and use the restrooms. My high school had roughly around 3,000 students and it was a lot of lgbt students there, each of them had their own character. I think far personally dealing with them it was great to be around with them. Especially when you hear their own story growing into something they wanted to be from as a they felt more of a girl. Yeah kids don't understand things when they are young, but as time progressed I think they develop the mindset to be what they want to be.
So, back to the topic of students... Nothing wrong with having a single-person restroom similar to the family restroom option. After all, many facilities offer family restrooms for when dads take their daughters or moms take their sons.
I really think that would diffuse the whole issue (aka "can of worms").
I highly doubt that a boy that identifies as a girl would want to parade around the locker room showing her male parts. There are many boys that were sexually assaulted by other BOYS! Please believe that you aren't going to stop bad things from happening by making people go to their birth gender bathroom. Do people not understand that predators don't just prey on the opposite sex?
Someone mentioned this earlier that there was a lawsuit against a school that provided a private restroom/locker area for a transgendered student and the student sued saying it was against her (male at birth) rights and she wanted to use the locker rooms with the gender she associated with. The other girls were extremely uncomfortable with this as she still had a member. The school truly was in a no-win situation.
I honestly believe that we need to work together for solutions that work for everyone. Having a third option (unisex bathrooms/locker rooms) was a good compromise--
Someone mentioned this earlier that there was a lawsuit against a school that provided a private restroom/locker area for a transgendered student and the student sued saying it was against her (male at birth) rights and she wanted to use the locker rooms with the gender she associated with. The other girls were extremely uncomfortable with this as she still had a member. The school truly was in a no-win situation.
I honestly believe that we need to work together for solutions that work for everyone. Having a third option (unisex bathrooms/locker rooms) was a good compromise--
Sometimes issues get politicized and a good compromise goes POOF!
This is a tough subject as many of us with concerns think carefully about posting because sometimes there is an automatic rush to judge some commenters. I truly think there are legit concerns.
Spidey's mom, I looked at which posts in this thread you have "liked" and it gives me a clue as to which side of the debate you agree with. You of course, just as anyone else, is entitled to have your opinion on this.
What I don't understand is why you feel that posters are being judged when in reality they are being called out on the fact that they try to present their own personal beliefs and opinions as fact.
I know that you are a staunch supporter of the scientific method. You and I have spent enough time together in various threads on vaccinations to know that we both trust in science. This is why I'm a bit confused that you can't see the parallel here. Just like "anti-vaxxers" have their convictions despite having no scientific support for their standpoint, some posters here exhibit the exact same tendency.
What bothers me here is that some posters are throwing around their own opinions in an area they likely have no expertise (education or experience), speculating about what they think might happen.
To me, presenting personal opinions and beliefs as facts and expect that they be respected on factual merit, is either intellectual dishonesty or an act of self-delusion. I think that we all need to own our opinions, warts and all, and not try to pretend that they are truths or facts. This is what I have been questioning, not people's right to have their opinons.
There is no criminological research that suggests that allowing transgendered individuals access public restrooms according to which sex they identify with, will increase the number of sexual assaults committed. Furthermore, my personal opinion based on the experience I have with crime and the persons who commit them, is that I don't really see how on earth it would.
This thread is about transgender bathrooms in schools and I apologize for the tangent comments that I have made. I wouldn't have made them if they hadn't been in response to previous posts. There are some things that I have difficulty ignoring. Misrepresentation of crime, an area I've spent a significant portion of my adult life working with, is one of them. How individuals are treated in society is another issue I care deeply about.
Bam. With all due respect, you are not male. A teenage boy, given today's social acceptance of trans and LGBT issues will not hesitate to use this as a way to get into the girl's LOCKER ROOM. This is where he can enjoy the sights. Have you noticed that the ones here who think it will be abused are men, we know how we think. I wouldn't put myself past doing this if I were a teenager now. Sorry, but women are naive to think their daughters are safe in a locker room.
You do realize how difficult it often is for transgender individuals to "come out," right? Do you know how often they face bullying? I highly doubt a teenage boy will lie about his identity and face potential bullying just to see a boob.
These are the two concerns I have. Maybe a highschool boy does identify as female. I highly doubt he has had reassignment surgery at such a young age. That being said, my 14 year old daughter shouldn't have to see his member in the locker room shower even though she is perfectly safe. Also, I worry about the girl who decides to exercise this right by using the boy's bathroom or locker room. Thinking she is "one of the guys" can be really unsafe for her, considering how often a group of young people together can result in really poor decision making. A single non-gendered bathroom with shower seems like such a better option to me, as I realize it can be bad for a male who identifies as female to use the boys bathroom as well, due to bullying.
agreed, It's not fear, its simply exposure to something many people don't necessarily want their daughters seeing. And like you said, red flags are all over the anatomically female kid wanting to use the male locker room (dangerous for him). Even with all the bullying training and policies out there, the kids still do it. It's just more subversive now and a locker room is a ripe area.
From a practical standpoint, there is simply not enough time between classes for many to use a single bathroom to change in if they don't want to see the opposite sex (or parents don't allow it). And in large districts and with budget cuts, what staff members will be reassigned to make sure everyone is getting to class (or out to the field) late in that case?
The nursing issue I could see potentially happening is a line to the nurses' bathroom that is already being used extensively by staff, MD students, ISSs students etc. so I guess we can add bathroom monitor to our list of duties.
From the couple friends I have who identify as trans, I seriously doubt a trans boy would go into the locker room expecting to be safe... The experiences I've heard is that pretty much all of existence is pretty unsafe for them. Which is why I find the attitudes of some people here depressing. Not surprising, but certainly sad.
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
No. I don't think teenage boys will dare each other to act as TG to get into the girls bathroom.
What kind of teenage boys do you all know? Give me a break!
I don't think they have to "act" as anything. They can just waltz in. Who's going to challenge them? Unless you think the stigma of being transgendered will keep them honest. What do I know?
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
This author experienced something horrible, and that shouldn't be diminished, but her experience has nothing to do with people who are transgender, or people pretending to be women. Hence, this story, while tragic, appears to be trying to tie an unrelated issue to her trauma in a way that seems very unfair.
She mentions three names, who should be Googled. All of them are men who pretended to be women in order to have access to women in bathrooms. They weren't transgender or pretending to be transgender. This distinction is important. A person who is pretending does so for short periods of time in order to accomplish a goal and then stops, but if being a woman is your identity then you're a woman 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. A student doesn't get to claim they're transgender only during gym class.
I hope they don't get to claim they're transgender only during gym class. I hope there are some checks and balances to keep an important accommodation from being abused.
Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN
6 Articles; 12,057 Posts
Gender cannot always be reduced to binary male/female. What about Swyer syndrome? Ambiguous genitalia?
Sorry for the continued derailment, but I just can't even...
So, back to the topic of students... Nothing wrong with having a single-person restroom similar to the family restroom option. After all, many facilities offer family restrooms for when dads take their daughters or moms take their sons.