Hey, y'all! I am compiling stories from folks who have broken predatory new graduate contracts, and have faced financial and career consequences as a result (I'm looking at you, HCA). The hospitals have held all the power in these dealings, and it's time we receive justice. Many of us have struggled and worked hard to provide excellent care for our patients under dire staffing and resources, only to receive backlash when we decide it's time to leave these unsafe conditions. I want to help tell our stories and prevent this disgusting practice to end. Here is my story:
I recently left a position at an HCA facility before my new grad contract was up (I had completed 3/4 of the two years), and I now owe them thousands of dollars. The unit I worked on was chronically understaffed, overworked, and underpaid. I continued to work hard and try to boost morale despite the daily strife. I volunteered to work in the COVID units back in April 2020 when little was known about the disease, and how to protect ourselves from it. Then my home unit was also turned into a PCU COVID unit, where I spent many of my shifts until I left in December 2020. My mental health had been deteriorating as a result of the stress and exhaustion. I had many conversations with my manager about the unacceptable conditions, and how it was affecting my mental health. No attempts were made to remedy the unit's situation. I told my manager I was accepting another position to take better care of myself. I am now being harassed by their collections agency, Benefit Recovery Group, to pay up the money I owe for the "Residency Program," (aka a three month orientation similar to what an experienced nurse would receive if they were changing unit specialties).
I don't believe I should be penalized for leaving unsafe working conditions after I had made multiple reports. I also cited my health as a reason for leaving, and it's only ironic that a hospital would come after an employee for prioritizing their health. Attempts at contacting HR and my previous manager have been futile. I am now frustrated, angry, and hungry for justice for myself and others who have been wronged by hospitals.
Please message me if you want to share your story. I will respect your need for anonymity if that is what your wish. Thank you for your time.
Reacting with knowledge of a quote by a great intellectual writer who is well-known is not emotionally related.It is though considered persuasive rhetoric.
4 hours ago, Curious1997 said:
Neither the industrial revolution or the radium girls are relevant here. Different time period
There are similar problems happening today (and the past is always relevant to a discussion of the present.) Does basic human nature change? Do we still use a capitalistic economy?
In a recent article in the Daily Mail: The Radium Girls writer warns us tragedy could happen again today
Quote
'I worry about the continued commercial instinct of prioritising profits over people.,' she told Femail. 'As long as that instinct is present, a story like that of the radium girls is, unfortunately, all too likely to repeat it".
Quote
Quoting from an article on Fast Fashion: In May, Global Labor Justice uncovered active employer disregard for employees in Asian factories supplying American apparel giants H&M and Gap. Results conclude that abuse against female garment workers stems directly from the way fast fashion meets its bottom line: outsourcing, contract work, and accelerated labor.
We see something like this in the health care industry with travel nurses, other contract work and having heavier patient loads than we can care for.
Here are the similarities noted in the Fast Fashion industry:
1) production targets are too demanding.
2) exploitative work conditions
And it is "history repeating itself" meaning in an intellectual way, hard facts, which is no way emotional on my part but is something that none of us want to see.
Quote
Many events that happen in present time are similar to what had already happened in the past.
The relevance is, Allnurses should start investigating if suddenly there is a flood of posts out to support a certain employers actions. They should look into the authenticity of those posts, as to whether those are independent views, or a corporation trying to cover their residue.
I am not clear on this. What flood of posts are supporting a "certain" corporation? All these posters are a part of the same conspiracy?
I am not clear on this. What flood of posts are supporting a "certain" corporation? All these posters are a part of the same conspiracy?
Yeah, I don't see anyone here supporting a "certain" corporation. There are a few people such as myself who are not falling into line and posting what she wants to hear, so therefore we must be in cahoots with the evil corporation.
Yeah, I don't see anyone here supporting a "certain" corporation. There are a few people such as myself who are not falling into line and posting what she wants to hear, so therefore we must be in cahoots with the evil corporation.
Are you speaking about the bane of all corporate capitalism otherwise termed HCA? Only when they are subject to a merciless wave of boycotts by new employees, organized union efforts, and wave after wave of class action law suits will they alter their ways.
While I think 16 weeks of additional training seems nice, this unfortunately is not the norm for new grad residency programs. The one I was in said 12 weeks orientation (4 wks on 3 different units before choosing your favorite) and a few extra classes online and a CPR refresher, along with a 'liason' that helps keep track of progress. We were also told if 12 weeks was not enough we could ask for 1 or 2 more. Reality was 8 weeks then I had to politely fight for more time because they thought it was time for me to make a decision already. In the end I was still shorted a week and the liason was less than helpful. I heard from her probably once a month and she was terrible at answering emails. I did not even know which unit was my home unit after I turned in my choices because at that point they were done with me.
ALSO, the preceptors that people keep saying need to be paid to help new grads, at my hospital, are not paid ANYthing extra. They come in their normal shift and sometimes they might have an orientee and sometimes they won't. All the burden of training a new grad is put on them with no extra pay or benefit. So this does not cost the hospital any more money. From my experience the only additional training that I would receive versus a nurse with experience being hired is the extra little classes. Both get "12" weeks training (if you're lucky), and have a preceptor during that time.
ALSO, all the hospitals in my area (like the OP) have contracts that you must work there for 2 years to be accepted into the residency program and they DO NOT hire new grads outside of the residency program. This FORCES new grads to sign a 2 year contract no matter where they go (this is with no sign-on bonus for those that do not realize what a new grad residency means). This is why I had such a difficult time deciding which hospital I wanted to work for because I hate contracts ( they smell of red flags ). I was lucky, however, that one hospital just changed to a 'promise' instead of a contract when I was applying and that is the ultimate reason I went with them. This is why OP said these contracts are normalized...because new grads have no other choice.
The OP does not have to state she was sexually harassed. It is clear she did not WANT to disclose she was sexually harassed because that wasn't the purpose of the post. The purpose of the post was to find other peoples stories of predatory New Grad Contracts. She can choose to deal with the sexual harassment in another way, that was not her purpose to do on this forum. And IMO LovingLife, you were very condescending, whether or not you are a regular contributor really has no bearing on that fact. You also assumed she got a sign-on bonus for the contract she signed instead of asking. I can't answer your question to her specific contract about what amount she has to pay back because I don't know her but I do know that typically there is a dollar amount assigned to the new-grad residency contracts stating what amount you will have to pay back (their $$ lost for training you). The dollar amount attached to the hospital I work for was $20k before they decided to try it without a contract. And I believe she already addressed the lawyer statement before you stated it.
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I think this is such bullcrap that a nurse, like all of us on the forum, comes here to gather stories and then gets attacked from all these different posts and not one person has actually posted a story that she asked for in the first place. I wasn't even going to comment on this post because I hate it when the topic strays but I have to say something. We are supposed to be supportive of each other and more often than not we FAIL at that. It doesn't honestly matter what OP's experience was, she asked for stories... so if you didn't have a story, then why are you choosing to pick her apart instead of giving her a story?! This is part of the problem! This is part of the mentality that nurses eat their young! This is unacceptable!
Kudos to OP for standing up for herself in this forum and quitting a job that was toxic. If we do not stand up for the things that make our lives worse, things will never change and we will always be battling those things that make our lives worse. Just because it always has been doesn't mean it always has to be.
Like I said, it does change the LEGALITY of things with a contract. You can have your personal feelings, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the legal circumstances of a binding contract.
Also our preceptors do get paid more an hour to precept. So that contributes to the scale of how much it costs to hire a new grad. I stated what happens at my hospital that does not require a contract but when you average the cost in nationwide, the amount my hospital pays is factored in, along with those hospitals that pay very little. It’s math and you can’t dispute numbers.
Everybody can have personal feelings on the subject, it doesn’t change the law. It doesn’t change that when one knowingly signs a contract and breaks it, they have to pay it back. Also, if the other side breaks the contract, like sexual harassment, that can make the contract void. That’s why it’s important to state the facts up front.
Specializes in orthopedic/trauma, Informatics, diabetes.
On 4/10/2021 at 4:49 PM, JKL33 said:
It costs a ton of money to train a new grad. The cost is over $100k. I saw a figure a few years ago that stated $129k.
They are paying 2 nurses to do the job of one. There is training and the bonus. I am not sure of the exact figure, but if a preceptor gets paid $50K/year that's half of what the organizations are saying, easily. Add a $10-$20K sign on bonus and it's not a stretch.
They are paying 2 nurses to do the job of one. There is training and the bonus. I am not sure of the exact figure, but if a preceptor gets paid $50K/year that's half of what the organizations are saying, easily. Add a $10-$20K sign on bonus and it's not a stretch.
Hi - not sure what this is about; quote in your post is not mine. ?
However, I probably disagree with what I think you are saying. I've already posted my acknowledgement that at the bare minimum I believe that it costs at least $15K to pay a new grad to attend a typical orientation period in which they cannot have their own assignment. No one is paying a nurse $50K a year just be a preceptor, and even if they were, that cost cannot be attributed to one new grad. Also, if the $50K you are referring to is the nurse's yearly salary aside from precepting (which is awfully low so I probably misunderstood), that is a cost that has nothing to do with the new grad.
Also, in this scenario posted by the OP there is no sign-on bonus involved.
The idea that it costs anywhere near $100k to train one new grad just doesn't pass muster of basic reason. That's saying that 12 weeks of some ill-defined training activity for ONE employee costs more than just paying an experienced nurse for an entire year (in many places; and in some places $100K is significantly more than even experienced nurses make). I don't think so. I'm just not buying it. They won't pay it as a yearly salary for a "worker," why the heck would I believe they would pay it for a few months' training for a new employee?
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
100K seems high. We do a 25 week orientation for new OR nurses. At 40 hours per week (all of our orientees do orient 7-3 M-F up until the last couple of weeks) with the starting RN pay about $26.50, that’s $26,500 in salary during orientation. Add in the 15% evening shift differential for the two weeks they orient to evening is another $318. The AORN Periop 101 program that all new OR nurses attend is $1,000 per seat. Our preceptors get a whopping $1/hour, so there’s another $1,000. Then for 6 weeks we assign a resource nurse to 3 periop graduates; let’s say they have a couple years of experience and make $28/hour. 6 weeks of that pay is $6,720 that if we weren’t having these new nurses we wouldn’t need the resource nurse.
26500 + 318 + 1000 + 1000 + 6720 is 35,538 in additional salary costs. Granted, there are also the supplies we pull from stock for sim labs and the 80 hours I as the educator spend directly with them during the Periop101 time (that’s another $3200 in salary) and I could see maybe around $40,000 in orientation costs just to the periop department without agency costs factored in.
That wouldn’t include the 2 weeks of nursing orientation before all RN hires set foot on their unit. Or the costs of advertising a job, the hours spent reviewing resumes, conducting the HR screening interview and the unit interview that includes multiple staff members on a panel, and sometimes even hiring agency staff to get us through the 6 months until the orientee can function on their own. The delays between surgeries because they’re slower at getting the room torn down, cleaned, and set up...
100K is a stretch (unless we do need those 6 months of agency staff), but I would say the amount is probably higher than a lot of people think of when they factor everything. Then again, periop also has one of the (if not the) longest orientation for a new nurse.
100K seems high. We do a 25 week orientation for new OR nurses. At 40 hours per week (all of our orientees do orient 7-3 M-F up until the last couple of weeks) with the starting RN pay about $26.50, that’s $26,500 in salary during orientation. Add in the 15% evening shift differential for the two weeks they orient to evening is another $318. The AORN Periop 101 program that all new OR nurses attend is $1,000 per seat. Our preceptors get a whopping $1/hour, so there’s another $1,000. Then for 6 weeks we assign a resource nurse to 3 periop graduates; let’s say they have a couple years of experience and make $28/hour. 6 weeks of that pay is $6,720 that if we weren’t having these new nurses we wouldn’t need the resource nurse.
26500 + 318 + 1000 + 1000 + 6720 is 35,538 in additional salary costs.
Thank you for posting a breakdown listing some specifics!
Remember that the $6720 needs to be divided by 3.
5 minutes ago, Rose_Queen said:
Granted, there are also the supplies we pull from stock for sim labs and the 80 hours I as the educator spend directly with them during the Periop101 time (that’s another $3200 in salary)
And the $3200 needs to be divided by the number of orientees you are working with during that time frame.
6 minutes ago, Rose_Queen said:
That wouldn’t include the 2 weeks of nursing orientation before all RN hires set foot on their unit.
I was with you up to this ^ point. Charging for on-boarding and general nursing-specific orientation has just never been a thing. If this does happen to be part of the astronomical figures tossed about as "new grad" costs, that's deceptive and a deception based on what would be a huge change.
9 minutes ago, Rose_Queen said:
Or the costs of advertising a job, the hours spent reviewing resumes, conducting the HR screening interview and the unit interview that includes multiple staff members on a panel, and sometimes even hiring agency staff to get us through the 6 months until the orientee can function on their own.
Why on earth would an employee be responsible for these costs?
100K is a stretch (unless we do need those 6 months of agency staff), but I would say the amount is probably higher than a lot of people think of when they factor everything.
"Everything" can't be factored. I'm sure in some places it costs money to maintain a parking structure so the new grad can park their vehicle. They need a badge. They need a little cubby in which to eat their lunch. They need a place to use the restroom. They need a locker. They need an IT person so they can have computer privileges. They need an Ascom/Vocera/communication device. They need supplies so they can start IVs on the patients. Etc. ad infinitum. Those new grads sure are expensive.
Again, I appreciate the breakdown of the relevant costs that you have provided. But the rest of what you got into toward the end of your post simply has nothing to do with the new grad or any individual nurse anywhere. If a company found themselves in a situation to pay an agency nurse for a time, that simply has nothing to do with the new grad or any nurse who shows up 2, 3 or 6 months later to take the job. Nothing.
With the kinds of overhead costs you are including you are talking about a situation where people are made full partners before they take on that kind of responsibility for the business and its expenses - and when they do that, they also gain a voice and a vote in all the other business decisions. Taking on the expenses of a business is not something that people do without having the kind of say that can protect their interests. Those situations are just a far, far cry from what we are talking about here.
londonflo
3,002 Posts
Reacting with knowledge of a quote by a great intellectual writer who is well-known is not emotionally related. It is though considered persuasive rhetoric.
There are similar problems happening today (and the past is always relevant to a discussion of the present.) Does basic human nature change? Do we still use a capitalistic economy?
In a recent article in the Daily Mail: The Radium Girls writer warns us tragedy could happen again today
We see something like this in the health care industry with travel nurses, other contract work and having heavier patient loads than we can care for.
Here are the similarities noted in the Fast Fashion industry:
1) production targets are too demanding.
2) exploitative work conditions
And it is "history repeating itself" meaning in an intellectual way, hard facts, which is no way emotional on my part but is something that none of us want to see.