Hey, y'all! I am compiling stories from folks who have broken predatory new graduate contracts, and have faced financial and career consequences as a result (I'm looking at you, HCA). The hospitals have held all the power in these dealings, and it's time we receive justice. Many of us have struggled and worked hard to provide excellent care for our patients under dire staffing and resources, only to receive backlash when we decide it's time to leave these unsafe conditions. I want to help tell our stories and prevent this disgusting practice to end. Here is my story:
I recently left a position at an HCA facility before my new grad contract was up (I had completed 3/4 of the two years), and I now owe them thousands of dollars. The unit I worked on was chronically understaffed, overworked, and underpaid. I continued to work hard and try to boost morale despite the daily strife. I volunteered to work in the COVID units back in April 2020 when little was known about the disease, and how to protect ourselves from it. Then my home unit was also turned into a PCU COVID unit, where I spent many of my shifts until I left in December 2020. My mental health had been deteriorating as a result of the stress and exhaustion. I had many conversations with my manager about the unacceptable conditions, and how it was affecting my mental health. No attempts were made to remedy the unit's situation. I told my manager I was accepting another position to take better care of myself. I am now being harassed by their collections agency, Benefit Recovery Group, to pay up the money I owe for the "Residency Program," (aka a three month orientation similar to what an experienced nurse would receive if they were changing unit specialties).
I don't believe I should be penalized for leaving unsafe working conditions after I had made multiple reports. I also cited my health as a reason for leaving, and it's only ironic that a hospital would come after an employee for prioritizing their health. Attempts at contacting HR and my previous manager have been futile. I am now frustrated, angry, and hungry for justice for myself and others who have been wronged by hospitals.
Please message me if you want to share your story. I will respect your need for anonymity if that is what your wish. Thank you for your time.
Just because she’s an adult and it was a contract doesn’t mean it wasn’t predatory. There also needs to be accountability on the employers side of the equation. Honestly y’all suck for putting all the blame on this nurse. You people are the reason nursing will never blossom into a full blown profession. Y’all wanting to point fingers at the people with the most to lose, the least to gain, and all the responsibility (THE NURSE). Wanting to throw your own under the bus, SHAME ON YOU. Drop the archaic, back biting, competitive, petty, snarky, and gossip culture - ITS OLD.
Not everyone was against the OP. I for one spoke out against these predatory contracts and others too. I agree some of the comments were harsh and not necessary. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is right.
Sadly I think these hospital corporations have decided it is easier to hold the new grads hostage rather than improve working conditions so they would stay voluntarily. Many of these hospitals used to have a lot of older, experienced nurses who were driven out directly or indirectly due to poor working conditions, disrespect and even outright harassment in some cases. Management decided that money was more important than patient safety and were OK with forcing older nurses out, letting the blind lead the blind! But then they discovered the new grads weren't willing to put up with the crap either and now realized they needed a legal contract to hold them hostage for a few years. This way they keep wages low and are OK with the constant turnover after the contracts are over. They've decided this is just the preferred cost of doing business, rather than trying to maintain nurses for the long haul! But it is the patients that suffer the most when the experienced nurses are driven out.
That was a preferred way of doing business with Wrongway health system that took my hospital over. They would lay off nurses and make them reapply for their job for lower pay and if that wasn't an option due to unions, for instance, than they would harass the older nurses to drive them out.
Ironically I worked with a couple travelers who had been let go from their hospital after Wrongway acquired it and now were getting crisis pay at another Wrongway owned hospital. Makes me laugh, at least they are getting some financial payback out of the situation. Good for them! But sad that they were forced out of their jobs in the first place.
I heard my hospital alone spent a couple million on travelers this past year after their stupidity lead to a mass exodus of nurses. Before they came and destroyed the place we had enough nurses. Instead their actions lead to wasting millions of dollars.
I honestly don't know how they stay in business. I wouldn't be surprised if they file bankruptcy one of these days because their cost cutting only ends up costing them much, much more! The big shots at the center of this disaster are getting bonuses for themselves and probably promotions. It is totally insane!
Not everyone was against the OP. I for one spoke out against these predatory contracts and others too. I agree some of the comments were harsh and not necessary. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is right.
Sadly I think these hospital corporations have decided it is easier to hold the new grads hostage rather than improve working conditions so they would stay voluntarily. Many of these hospitals used to have a lot of older, experienced nurses who were driven out directly or indirectly due to poor working conditions, disrespect and even outright harassment in some cases. Management decided that money was more important than patient safety and were OK with forcing older nurses out, letting the blind lead the blind! But then they discovered the new grads weren't willing to put up with the crap either and now realized they needed a legal contract to hold them hostage for a few years. This way they keep wages low and are OK with the constant turnover after the contracts are over. They've decided this is just the preferred cost of doing business, rather than trying to maintain nurses for the long haul! But it is the patients that suffer the most when the experienced nurses are driven out.
That was a preferred way of doing business with Wrongway health system that took my hospital over. They would lay off nurses and make them reapply for their job for lower pay and if that wasn't an option due to unions, for instance, than they would harass the older nurses to drive them out.
Ironically I worked with a couple travelers who had been let go from their hospital after Wrongway acquired it and now were getting crisis pay at another Wrongway owned hospital. Makes me laugh, at least they are getting some financial payback out of the situation. Good for them! But sad that they were forced out of their jobs in the first place.
I heard my hospital alone spent a couple million on travelers this past year after their stupidity lead to a mass exodus of nurses. Before they came and destroyed the place we had enough nurses. Instead their actions lead to wasting millions of dollars.
I honestly don't know how they stay in business. I wouldn't be surprised if they file bankruptcy one of these days because their cost cutting only ends up costing them much, much more! The big shots at the center of this disaster are getting bonuses for themselves and probably promotions. It is totally insane!
Thank you for standing up for your own. Unfortunately there was a disgusting display of nurses against their own in this thread. I’m reminded of how the nursing “profession” is riddled with a high school mentality, and these CEOs are using these weak minded individuals to do their bidding, via spineless managers and such.
Just because she’s an adult and it was a contract doesn’t mean it wasn’t predatory. There also needs to be accountability on the employers side of the equation. Honestly y’all suck for putting all the blame on this nurse. You people are the reason nursing will never blossom into a full blown profession. Y’all wanting to point fingers at the people with the most to lose, the least to gain, and all the responsibility (THE NURSE). Wanting to throw your own under the bus, SHAME ON YOU. Drop the archaic, back biting, competitive, petty, snarky, and gossip culture - ITS OLD.
I don't think it's productive to discuss this as a personal responsibility issue but rather, as a legal issue, because if these contracts are inherently illegal then they would go away. Right now, I am of the mind that the hospital should be able to collect on a pro rata basis because they are providing the new hire with education and training that they can take away with them. I've seen a few OR hires stay long enough to just get the orientation and then leave for greener pastures so they have gained from the hospital while the hospital loses. It's when the new nurse who leaves has to pay for the time they weren't even in the institution ...well, that gives me pause.
I don't think it's productive to discuss this as a personal responsibility issue but rather, as a legal issue, because if these contracts are inherently illegal then they would go away. Right now, I am of the mind that the hospital should be able to collect on a pro rata basis because they are providing the new hire with education and training that they can take away with them. I've seen a few OR hires stay long enough to just get the orientation and then leave for greener pastures so they have gained from the hospital while the hospital loses. It's when the new nurse who leaves has to pay for the time they weren't even in the institution ...well, that gives me pause.
Most nurses work as at will employees, where the employer may fire you at any time and you, in turn, may leave at any time. Nurses leave jobs for many reasons, and I think that is their right. It is up to employers to provide a positive work environment if they want to retain nurses.
I don't think it's productive to discuss this as a personal responsibility issue but rather, as a legal issue, because if these contracts are inherently illegal then they would go away. Right now, I am of the mind that the hospital should be able to collect on a pro rata basis because they are providing the new hire with education and training that they can take away with them. I've seen a few OR hires stay long enough to just get the orientation and then leave for greener pastures so they have gained from the hospital while the hospital loses. It's when the new nurse who leaves has to pay for the time they weren't even in the institution ...well, that gives me pause.
Don't assume that just because a contract is inherently illegal that multi billion dollar corporations will not still utilize them if they deem them to be "enforceable" and beyond the scope of the average person to oppose. HCA used to routinely do things that were illegal, but which they calculated would save or make them money despite not being legal or even killing patients. That is why they received the largest fine in the history of healthcare from the time of modern America to the days of ancient Rome.
Don't assume that just because a contract is inherently illegal that multi billion dollar corporations will not still utilize them if they deem them to be "enforceable" and beyond the scope of the average person to oppose. HCA used to routinely do things that were illegal, but which they calculated would save or make them money despite not being legal or even killing patients. That is why they received the largest fine in the history of healthcare from the time of modern America to the days of ancient Rome.
When enough people collect the will to put HCA out of business, they would be put out of business. As long as nurses go to work for them, HCA will continue to abuse them. No one single person can break them. They need a good shunning and a $1.7 billion fine is a great start! People do get out of non-compete clauses and 24 states don't enforce them. There's no reason why other states can't pass the same legislation. I don't think it would take long for HCA to be more nurse friendly if nurses just boycotted them as an employer.
CreamCheese Rangoons, I applaud you for responding to lovinglife123 as you did. Very professional, articulate and absolutely the truth! LL123 is obviously an example of some of the bully nurses in our profession. I have worked with people like LL123(notice I did not refer to her as a nurse; nurses care about people) A foreign nurse who weighed about 90 pounds soaking had a bariatric patient who fell out of bed. Staffing was short, night shift, she and I were trying to help this patient. The LL123 example stuck her head in the door, said "Your patient, your responsibility! You came over here to work on your on decision, now deal with it!"
But, in LL123 defense, LL123 could have worked with a bunch of snowflakes who simply were not prepared to do the real work in medicine and thought it would be like on ER or a media presentation. Or would not accept responsibility for their work/role.
You experienced an awful deal! Everyone around Nashville knows HCA and how they treat their nurses, also recently being sued for reckless actions during covid. And NO, it does not cost $100k + to orient/train a new nurse. NSI report stated $24-$51K. Most of the problem is the hospitals will not staff sufficiently to allow thorough training. Then the new nurse becomes anxious, loses confidence in skills and is put in dangerous positions.
As a supervisor I was asked to put pediatric nurses in ICU "just to keep numbers up". The CEO or manager doesn't risk their license nor risk their name being splattered all over the nursing board newsletter as "disciplined", or pay money they don't have to defend some ridiculous and false charge that must go to court to prove their innocence.
One other factor that truly irritates me is that nursing schools insist on teaching crap like theory, and other fluff classes but don't bother to teach a basic business class to teach new nurses how to negotiate contracts, what to look for in a contract, how to deal with the first 2-3 years after graduation.
If you can prove the hospital breached the contract you can get out of it. Can you obtain documentation of your repeated pleas for help? The sexual harassment charge could be documented and sent to the HCA office in Nashville. You could even bring your case to the local media. They would love a good story of how you signed on expecting one thing and getting something completely different. This is an ongoing problem with new nurses and a TV station could do an investigative report about it. I have seen many posts on this forum about the same thing.You could seek legal counsel especially since this occurred during covid.
I do not recommend new grads sign any type of contract with hospitals. Not worth it. The sign on bonus gets eat up in taxes and you don't have the freedom to go if finding the environment isn't conducive to either mental or physical health.
WIth HCA contract, you can complete the contract at any HCA facility, so perhaps just transferring to a different unit/facility would have worked for you. I have seen that multiple times at the facility I worked at.
CreamCheese Rangoons, I applaud you for responding to lovinglife123 as you did. Very professional, articulate and absolutely the truth! LL123 is obviously an example of some of the bully nurses in our profession. I have worked with people like LL123(notice I did not refer to her as a nurse; nurses care about people) A foreign nurse who weighed about 90 pounds soaking had a bariatric patient who fell out of bed. Staffing was short, night shift, she and I were trying to help this patient. The LL123 example stuck her head in the door, said "Your patient, your responsibility! You came over here to work on your on decision, now deal with it!"
But, in LL123 defense, LL123 could have worked with a bunch of snowflakes who simply were not prepared to do the real work in medicine and thought it would be like on ER or a media presentation. Or would not accept responsibility for their work/role.
You experienced an awful deal! Everyone around Nashville knows HCA and how they treat their nurses, also recently being sued for reckless actions during covid. And NO, it does not cost $100k + to orient/train a new nurse. NSI report stated $24-$51K. Most of the problem is the hospitals will not staff sufficiently to allow thorough training. Then the new nurse becomes anxious, loses confidence in skills and is put in dangerous positions.
As a supervisor I was asked to put pediatric nurses in ICU "just to keep numbers up". The CEO or manager doesn't risk their license nor risk their name being splattered all over the nursing board newsletter as "disciplined", or pay money they don't have to defend some ridiculous and false charge that must go to court to prove their innocence.
One other factor that truly irritates me is that nursing schools insist on teaching crap like theory, and other fluff classes but don't bother to teach a basic business class to teach new nurses how to negotiate contracts, what to look for in a contract, how to deal with the first 2-3 years after graduation.
If you can prove the hospital breached the contract you can get out of it. Can you obtain documentation of your repeated pleas for help? The sexual harassment charge could be documented and sent to the HCA office in Nashville. You could even bring your case to the local media. They would love a good story of how you signed on expecting one thing and getting something completely different. This is an ongoing problem with new nurses and a TV station could do an investigative report about it. I have seen many posts on this forum about the same thing.You could seek legal counsel especially since this occurred during covid.
I do not recommend new grads sign any type of contract with hospitals. Not worth it. The sign on bonus gets eat up in taxes and you don't have the freedom to go if finding the environment isn't conducive to either mental or physical health.
One of the things that makes (or made) HCA "game changing" was that there contracts are not for a bonus. Rather they are "just for training". Imagine applying at Costco, Microsoft. or Amazon and being told that if it doesn't "work out" you will have the privilege of owing them many thousands of dollars. When I graduated in 2008 with my ASN HCA offered me a 10K bonus (which I declined) but there was no "fee" for training. This is "Grapes of Wrath" type stuff. Why is it I was able to get 1000's of hours of training as a PMHNP from psychiatrists (who acted as preceptors while in school and still consult with me today) for free (indeed they were literally training their competition) but HCA wants to bill their essential employees for training?
Avoid HCA at all costs. They are only money driven. Patient safety & nurse retention are not valued. High ratios with very little ancillary support. And the managers and case managers walk around all day in long white coats. Isn’t that impersonating a doctor?
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
On 4/22/2021 at 4:35 PM, momofm1998 said:
One other factor that truly irritates me is that nursing schools insist on teaching crap like theory, and other fluff classes but don't bother to teach a basic business class to teach new nurses how to negotiate contracts, what to look for in a contract, how to deal with the first 2-3 years after graduation.
I do not recommend new grads sign any type of contract with hospitals. Not worth it. The sign on bonus gets eat up in taxes and you don't have the freedom to go if finding the environment isn't conducive to either mental or physical health.
These are seriously important points. Nursing schools should teach business and incorporate it into all their curricula as health care is a business. And they should teach new grads never to sign a contract unless they KNOW FOR SURE what it is they are signing and know how enforceable it is.
If it's HCA, stay away. Good mantra to live by. We are doing an awful PR job for our "profession" by not making it public knowledge when hospitals become dangerous. We behave like quiet little hit dogs being cranked out on the assembly line. We also need to recruit more men.
brandy1017, ASN, RN
2,910 Posts
Not everyone was against the OP. I for one spoke out against these predatory contracts and others too. I agree some of the comments were harsh and not necessary. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is right.
Sadly I think these hospital corporations have decided it is easier to hold the new grads hostage rather than improve working conditions so they would stay voluntarily. Many of these hospitals used to have a lot of older, experienced nurses who were driven out directly or indirectly due to poor working conditions, disrespect and even outright harassment in some cases. Management decided that money was more important than patient safety and were OK with forcing older nurses out, letting the blind lead the blind! But then they discovered the new grads weren't willing to put up with the crap either and now realized they needed a legal contract to hold them hostage for a few years. This way they keep wages low and are OK with the constant turnover after the contracts are over. They've decided this is just the preferred cost of doing business, rather than trying to maintain nurses for the long haul! But it is the patients that suffer the most when the experienced nurses are driven out.
That was a preferred way of doing business with Wrongway health system that took my hospital over. They would lay off nurses and make them reapply for their job for lower pay and if that wasn't an option due to unions, for instance, than they would harass the older nurses to drive them out.
Ironically I worked with a couple travelers who had been let go from their hospital after Wrongway acquired it and now were getting crisis pay at another Wrongway owned hospital. Makes me laugh, at least they are getting some financial payback out of the situation. Good for them! But sad that they were forced out of their jobs in the first place.
I heard my hospital alone spent a couple million on travelers this past year after their stupidity lead to a mass exodus of nurses. Before they came and destroyed the place we had enough nurses. Instead their actions lead to wasting millions of dollars.
I honestly don't know how they stay in business. I wouldn't be surprised if they file bankruptcy one of these days because their cost cutting only ends up costing them much, much more! The big shots at the center of this disaster are getting bonuses for themselves and probably promotions. It is totally insane!