Older Student, Unprofessional Nurse During Clinical

[Nurse Magnolia]

After many, many years (20!) of "thinking about it", I finally decided at age 45 to go back to school for nursing. My mom was a nurse for 50 years and even though I have two other bachelor's degrees, the timing was never right for the commitment of nursing school. Now that I have two kids in college and my other two kids are high school aged, I decided that this was my time.

I will graduate one year from now from one of the remaining hospital based diploma programs (Our area is actually FULL of them) and then I will immediately bridge to a BSN after just two semesters because of my other degrees. I am currently a 4.0 student.

Because I am in a hospital based program, we get A LOT of clinical experience (it's the reason I chose this type of program) and so far, my experiences have been great and have only solidified my desire to be a nurse. I am loving every second of it.

However, this week I experiences something I didn't expect. I half expected rude nurses or the dreaded "eat their young" nurses (which would be kind of tough on me because I'm older than many of them!) and I wasn't so worried about that because I've been dealing with mean girls since long before the movie.....but I didn't expect to hear nurses talking so badly about their PATIENTS!

I was sitting at the nurses desk looking up my patient's meds for my upcoming med pass. The nurse sitting next to me was kabitzing with the other nurse. These are well established nurses. And the one nurse starts complaining about the patient down the floor being a ******* **** (but she said the words) because he was complaining about his pain following a prostatectomy (this is a urology floor). Then she went on to say that the wife reported that the patient was a Marine and so she determined that he was the wussiest Marine she'd ever seen. For 5 minutes...full of swearing and making fun of this patient. The other nurse listened, and laughed. But did not join in the name calling. But she sure didn't condemn it either.

I. Was. Stunned. I said nothing because I am a student, but I did ask my clinical instructor about it because the family was walking around and could have SO EASILY heard this nurses comments.

So, my question to you from a very naive nursing student....Is this the norm? Will I need to toughen up? Should I have said something to to the nurse? Should I have told my instructor as I did? I thought it was waaaayyyy out of line, but then I started remembering that they tell us that they are teaching us to graduate nursing school and when you are on the floor it's a whole other ballgame.

If this is the ballgame, I'm not playing that game. I may not have any friends on the floor, but I'm not going to participate in that kind of talk about patients. I get venting or expressing frustration about a difficult client, but please tell me that is not the norm....

So what say you, oh wise nurses?

[Double-Helix, BSN, RN]

I did not say anything BECAUSE I know that I am a guest on the unit. I go out of my way to make my being there be a benefit to the nurses. I've worked with some really great nurses from whom I have learned a lot. This nurse is always kind of crabby and rude. It didn't bother me whatsoever until I heard her discussing this patient like this when the family was 15 feet away in the room. If I heard a nurse talking about my husband that way, I'd be furious. And yes, I get that nurses get mad at patients. But from what I can gather, she was mad at him for being in pain after surgery.

I'm not judging anyone or thinking that I know what it's like to be a nurse. I do not. But I want to and I want to learn what the floor dynamics are so that I may more easily navigate them when I am a "real nurse". I know nurses have bad days and I am positive I will judge my patients as well from time to time because I am human. I just felt like this went a step too far. But maybe I'm wrong on that....

Your responses come across as very defensive. You asked if this type of behavior is the norm. You asked if you were correct in reporting her to your clinical instructor or if you should have said something to the nurse directly. You alluded that you wouldn't have any friends at work if you refused to participate in negative conversations about patients. You asked for opinions from nurses here. I simply answered your questions and addressed your post- and agreed with you, actually.

[Nurse Magnolia, BSN, RN]

Your responses come across as very defensive. You asked if this type of behavior is the norm. You asked if you were correct in reporting her to your clinical instructor or if you should have said something to the nurse directly. You alluded that you wouldn't have any friends at work if you refused to participate in negative conversations about patients. You asked for opinions from nurses here. I simply answered your questions and addressed your post- and agreed with you, actually.

I'm sorry. I am not trying to be defensive, at all...I think I expected everyone to come back with "OF COURSE That's not professional!" so the responses had me feeling a little dumb for even asking the question and I am overexplaining. I tried to delete the thread but I have to have a moderator do it for me.

Thank you for answering my question so kindly. I did not mean to reply in a manner that sounded rude or defensive.

[LovingLife123]

I am definitely seeing from the responses that this IS the norm and I have to say I'm disappointed. Apparently I was pretty naïve.

However, it won't change a thing for how I will behave. I'm not saying that I won't ever talk about a patient. I will say that I won't call a patient a Fuc*ing Pu**y because they are in pain and then make fun of their military service. And I won't talk about them when the family is 15 feet away. But other than that, I am certainly not saying I am better than anyone. I wanted to know if it was normal and apparently, the answer is yes. In 6 months in clinical experiences, this is the first time I heard a nurse talk like this, so I was surprised. That's all.

Like I said, come back after a few years of experience. You'll see.

[Persephone Paige, ADN]

It's just like life, some people hit you the wrong way. Life doesn't stop being life when you walk through the hospital doors. It's always the goal to be very professional. But, every once in a while I'll have a patient that I just don't like. Most of us can put it aside and say, "it's 8/12 hours and I never have to see this person again." Some people can't... You will meet all kinds of patients and nurses. There have actually been times when I felt like I was back in my old high school gym class playing dodge ball, that's how catty some can be. The person who said, "you do you" has given you the very best advice of all. Look straight ahead, do the task at hand.

[Eris Discordia BSN, RN]

To put it plainly, yes, this is relatively common and it does happen. Now, not so much the use of the super vulgar language...that would have thrown me off too. And I've done this for 16 years. But nurses kvetch about patients and they do pass judgement, particularly in the area of pain control.

My best advice is you do you. You can not participate in the behavior and still maintain good relationships with peers. Nurses are humans and humans say questionable things. Nurses have varying personalities, varying tolerances, and varying pet peeves.

Not really defending the nurse in your case, but maybe the patient was a major PITA. Maybe he really disagreed with the doc's pain management and was taking it out in a bad way on the nurse and she lashed out with inappropriate language with a peer. Maybe he was like Mary Poppins and that nurse just had a bad attitude. I don't know.

Again, you do you. The less you worry about other people's behavior and practice, the easier it will be for you to cope with the stressors of the job. I'm stressed enough keeping my own junk in place, I cannot allow myself to stress over what my peers say and do at the nurse's station. But that's just how I deal with my work day.

[NewEnglandRN16]

I believe it was already said but this is not just specific to nursing. Other professions have done it too. I was a waitress. You better believe if the guest is rude, the staff is having a convo about you in the back.

There are some people that are more vulgar than others. But as a nurse I have dealt with patients and families that drive me crazy to the point that you complain to your coworkers (some patients/families expect 1:1 nursing and that's not possible).

Not defending the nurse but given that it's urology floor, perhaps she had dealt with a lot of post op and understand the pain management that goes with it.

As others said, just go on with your day.

Best of luck.

[Davey Do]

Your only goal is to get the "paper" that says you're a nurse. Keep your eye on the target. Then you can...

... be the example and behave in the manner fitting of a medical professional.

I find your enquiry quite refreshing, Jenbripsu, for our behavior has a major impact on those we work for, with, and around.

Once you're a member of the Nurses Club, you can be the example others will want to follow.

Good luck to you, Jenbripsu, and keep on keeping on!

[Davey Do]

I like your post Eris Discordia BSN RN. I really wanted to comment on this portion:

Not really defending the nurse in your case, but maybe the patient was a major PITA. Maybe he really disagreed with the doc's pain management and was taking it out in a bad way on the nurse and she lashed out with inappropriate language with a peer.

I have zero tolerance for profanity or any other type of inappropriate behavior outside of the break room.

A manager who I worked with 30+ years ago gave us, his subordinates, some sound advice: "When you walk through the doors of this unit, you're 'on'. You leave your private life outside of this unit and you're here for the patient".

"...you're here for the patient". Profane putdowns is not an example of being there for the patient; it is an indication of someone who selfishly has poor boundaries.

This doesn't mean that I haven't had my fair share of intertwining some negative aspects of my personality into my work, but my past manager's advice is a goal for which I strive to attain.

As a side note regarding my statement of "...outside of the break room", I once dropped the F bomb while talking with some colleagues on break. One of them said, "I've never heard you talk like that before!" I replied, "I save profanity for fitting circumstances", in that, I save profanity for the shock value.

[guest769224]

You will receive a lot of responses on this site stating you are a student, and to get over it. Or that you don't know how it is to be a nurse yet. Personally I'd pay little attention to those.

My advice, give patients the respect they deserve. You can do that now as a student, and when you practice as an RN. That is how I govern my practice with patients and I have had a satisfying career. You can too.

[Mavrick, BSN, RN]

So, my question to you from a very naive nursing student....Is this the norm? Will I need to toughen up? Should I have said something to to the nurse? Should I have told my instructor as I did? I thought it was waaaayyyy out of line, but then I started remembering that they tell us that they are teaching us to graduate nursing school and when you are on the floor it's a whole other ballgame.

If this is the ballgame, I'm not playing that game. I may not have any friends on the floor, but I'm not going to participate in that kind of talk about patients. I get venting or expressing frustration about a difficult client, but please tell me that is not the norm....

So what say you, oh wise nurses?

Based on this question .... I would answer, "NO this not the NORM"

Yes, it happens. Frequently the comments are just frustration about the unrealistic expectations of too much TV watching from an ignorant patient population.

The vulgarity is a personal thing. This country (United States) has gotten more vulgar as the popularity of social media makes it an easy click away to spew hateful verbiage. If you don't save the colorful language for that special occasion you just sound like street trash.

[JKL33]

I wrote something earlier and didn't post because this topic, this situation, has about a hundred different take-offs as far as what could be said about it.

And I have mixed feelings, frankly. With that, here are some random thoughts:

When I first read your question I thought, "Come on - of course this is not the norm." With your life experiences thus far in professional settings, you have not experienced this type of thing. So far in nursing it doesn't sound like you experienced it before this incident, either. So you know it's a random thing that is not largely "the norm" in most of the public sphere, really. Therefore I wondered if there might have been a different question you were more worried about, such as "Is nursing so rough that I may find myself sinking into this behavior some day?" or "Why would any nurse do anything like this?" or perhaps you were hoping that we could confirm that this individual is a "very bad person and shouldn't even be a nurse."

This topic would've been a great discussion for post-conference.

Heck no it is not the norm; it was terribly unprofessional.

The thing is. In my ever-so-humble opinion, the whole of Nursing is very short on conveying to each other and to future generations of nurses, that, well, nurses are people too. Some days I really wouldn't mind a good meme to that effect. If you have read our Code of Ethics, you know they are very tall orders for basically every aspect of our lives, including our personal lives. They read as if we aren't mere mortals, for goodness' sake. Meanwhile, after we learn all the ideals of what we should be, we move on to the real world of caring for patients, where we are unabashedly treated...not quite like the kind and compassionate hand-holders and world-problem-solvers of whom the Code of Ethics speaks.

There is a major disconnect. Our profession would do well to quit warning future nurses about bullying, and start owning up to the mismatch of which I speak, which appears to cause innumerable new nurses to rethink the entire meaning of life and everything one has ever learned so far. Some nurses rarely display any professional comportment. Many patients couldn't care less if you spent all your physical and mental energy on their care and can't be bothered to come up with one iota of gratitude.

All things considered, passing judgment becomes difficult.

[smartnurse1982]

You can be nice,sweet,kind, and professional and guess what?

Patients and families won't appreciate it and will disrespect you.

I notice they respect the nurses who do cuss and talk about them in a negative way.