I know it is controversial topic. First I explain myself a bit. I would like to have children at some point but I dont have them at the moment as I deal with some health issues and I havent met right partner to be father.
Now main problem. Why staff with children always think that will have priority to go home on time and will refuse to stay longer if required only because they have kids? Childless staff also have plans, responsibilities or simple would like to have time to cook for a next day.
I believe some fair system should be in place. Once mothers go home early, on other occasion they stay longer and single people enjoy their time. Any thoughts? Am I wrong to think so?
I personally saw plenty of times where the nurses without children went home earlier than the ones with children. One time even when one nurse's middle school age daughter was known to be standing in front of the school waiting to be picked up for almost an hour after school was let out! Really depends so much on who you're working with! Mean people just suck! So do always statements~
It's easy to say "won't happen again" when the next time is fully a year away. If the manager actually meant that, the manager would fix this years schedule.
I know.
I'm trying to stay at this job til the 1 year mark. I'll get through this holiday season (don't have a choice), then come spring I'll reevaluate. The job has been good to me in many ways; this was the first big issue for me.
(And it really IS a big issue as my mom has been fighting a very brave battle with cancer this year ... she's held on for so long ...)
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
How about the job just realize that they need to be fair to all staff? Why should she have to start over somewhere else if she likes her job?
You do not have to pay that much for jeans or shoes. Ever hear of Goodwill? Your son does not have to be in BB league. Or maybe he could work a small job and pay some of his own costs? And an apple in his Christmas stocking is enough. No trip to Norway on the Princess line is needed.
Your need to work is not more important than a single person's. You chose to have kids, I assume.
If I wanted to buy my kids cloths at Goodwill I wouldn't have become a nurse. We are not extravagant in our home but we (my husband and I) work hard to provide a good life for our son and save enough to retire eventually. My son does his part as well but he is an athlete who may get a college scholarship. Having proper equipment allows him to play at his best. I don't spend huge amounts on cloths shoes etc.....We purchase our share at Walmart but when it comes to him being properly equipped for the sports he participates in I go the extra mile. He's a good kid, gets decent grades and rarely gives me any trouble. He has earned money for things he has wanted that were not in the budget. Like a brand new pair of Air Jordan's he bought last year with money he earned working for my sister.
And while my need to work may not trump someone who doesn't have kids. My need to get out of work on time to pick up my child who I am legally responsible for certainly trumps someone who wants to go to take a yoga class at the gym.
As to the point you make about choosing to have kids that's true - but once we do choose to have kids and bring them into this world we can't just abdicate our responsibility to them.
All nurses should be getting out on time no matter their family situations. If they are not getting out on time it's their fault. Report should never take more than 30 minutes and barring emergencies should start on time. If you are working over you should be paid. End of argument.
Do whatever it takes to be with your family on what may very well be their last holiday!
I missed my Dad's last Thanksgiving to be 'on call' for, come to find out years later, a very ungrateful and what I call an abusive system of an employer! I lived and breathed that place and for what? I was so devoted to that big medical center. What a fool I was to miss my Dad's last Thanksgiving!!! He was 8 hours away.
No to mention the call was for an area I only floated to occasionally, and where some of the regulars acted as if they were so damn superior but yet my work area could qualify to take their call on weekends and holidays! Ha! What a joke! Sorry to sound so bitter.
As a last resort, you can always call in sick for your holiday like the fairly new bridge msn asst mgr (btw, she had no kids) in training did that Thanksgiving to get me called in!
I'm just saying that may not be right thing to do but when it comes down to it your terminal family member it is just that. You have to live with yourself and your family and your decisions for a very long time hopefully if you're lucky.
Of course try to work it out with your very reasonable mgr first! On top of all that it meant my kids missed their Grandpa's last Thanksgiving too. He could've used all our hugs there and then I know!
When I first saw the holiday schedule, I did say something to the NM. Expressed more in confusion at first because I WAS confused and thought perhaps it was an error. When it was 'clarified' I did say something. I didn't "whine" but merely stated facts. NM promised it wouldn't happen this way again; I'm not holding my breath.
I'm not typically a squeaky wheel. I don't have much to complain about. This other coworker complains constantly, frequently calls out the next day if she had a "tough shift" the day before. I think my NMs way of dealing with her is to get her to shut up in the fastest way possible.
Are you just a mellow soul or are you, like my DIL, aiming for a promotion by doing anything asked of her? She does anything and everything, crabbing to us at home all the while she is putting on her smiling face on the job. She has passed the first 2 rounds for a promotion, just needs one more interview and will have a much larger salary and better working conditions.
Same here - there is no reason barring an emergency when a nurse should not be getting off on time. Where I work shift change starts at 3:00Pm and we are done by 3:30. It's rare that I am not out the door by quarter to four. As a psych nurse I have about 17 to 20 patients under my care. I practice good time management. Get my work done give a good report and leave. I am not obligated to stay late. Their is no reason for a nurse to stay over charting etc... All overtime in my facility has to be approved by management. So you can't just stay over to finish up! You are expected to let the supervisor know if you are behind. If we get a last minute admission or emergency I will sometimes ask if I am needed to stay over. I am a Master Trainer in my facility so I am supposed to show people how to do the job safely and on schedule.
Hppy
Same here...a psych nurse but...our next shift nurse always comes late..10-15 mins., and we are always late getting out late due to report taking the full 30mins, if not more. We have tried talking to her about it. She feels we can give report in less time. I feel that is not her call. We have to report what we know is important. We have 8 hr shifts, and a lot of info needs to be passed along to the shift after her's, so we need to endorse certain details, and that takes time.
It's not easy to find good RNs where we work, so we just put up with it as management will not do anything about this. Sometimes you just have to suck it up. Not everything is perfect. She is a very good nurse. Plus, to all those that say that management needs to prepare for these unexpected situations that end up taking more time on the clock...FORGET IT! Not going to happen. In this climate of bottom lines, no management is going to provide for the "in case situations", because of cost. However, if you are in a position where OT is common and usual, then you do have a case for pressuring management to come up with a solution.
Are you just a mellow soul or are you, like my DIL, aiming for a promotion by doing anything asked of her? She does anything and everything, crabbing to us at home all the while she is putting on her smiling face on the job. She has passed the first 2 rounds for a promotion, just needs one more interview and will have a much larger salary and better working conditions.
Hey, I guess whatever it takes.
Not looking for a promotion. Just looking at the big picture. Get through the year, pick up some great skills ... my review was glowing when I signed it. By spring I'll hopefully be a good candidate for whatever I decide to do next.
I worked it out so I see my family xmas eve and the Saturday after thanksgiving. As long as I get to spend time with them, it doesn't matter the true date.
As caliotter mentioned, this is not a phenomenon specific to nursing, I think in all areas, those with children are perceived to have a higher priority with regard to maintaining schedules, getting time off for sick kids, etc. I think you're well within your right to speak up if you see this treatment and remind a coworker or management that your time is no less important because you don't have children. When I was working in a different field, my husband was home with our kids so I wasn't impacted by sick kids, snow day at school, school vacation, etc. However, I had many coworkers that considered it a free day off if their child was home sick. Wouldn't use vacation time, sick time, etc. would just stay home. Clearly this was a different work environment, people could catch up on things on another day. But, some people definitely took advantage and it was frustrating to those of us that didn't use this "benefit", management can run things well, or poorly, best you can do is hope yours makes things equitable.
Agree with you, many places I worked I saw people getting peak vacation and days off over those without children. I learned to play the game and spoke of my pets as my "daughter, son, etc" One of my pets was desperately ill once and I called in so I could take care of him (he was dx with very aggressive cancer), my manager at the time asked me about it and I asked her "if this was someone's kid would they have been allowed the day off?" She said "yes, they would have." I said to her "well just think of my dog as my kid because he's a family member just like any other" and I left her office on that. When he passed away 6 wks later, I called in for bereavement (because I would have been absolutely no good to anyone that day anyway), funny thing is my manager went around telling everyone she gave me the time off,lol. But my co-workers were supportive.
I've been on both sides of this debate. I had a coworker who was a single mom, dad not involved at all (when she was 4 months pregnant he told her his "ex" girlfriend was 3 months pregnant). Thursdays were our long days where one would work 7:30--4:00. She always took the early time and walked out the door at 4:00 on the dot, regardless of what was going on in the back. That means she'd leave and I'd be by myself with 3 pts in the back, 2 charts ready to come back, and two more still on the schedule to come in. Doc would schedule last appt at 5:15 and I'd have to do all the closing work, so I'd be stuck until 6:00 (start time 8:30). On our regular schedule days, 8:30-5:00, she'd walk out at 5:00 even if we weren't done. I do have kids, have been a single mom, but I stayed as long as I could. Daycare and after school programs charge $5 PER MINUTE late and after 3 your child will be dismissed from the program, so we honestly do have to leave by a certain time to get our kids. If I do have to leave and my new coworker has to finish up, I make sure that as much as possible is done. My oldest is now driving so that helps tremendously, and I have him put my youngest on the bus for those early Thursday mornings when it's my turn to work early. Oh, and I still end up staying until almost 5:00!
I got so sick and tired of never knowing when I was getting to leave. Not because my charting and work
Wasn't done, but because the chronic short staffing or not finding coverage for a nurse that called off. Management never volunteered to stay and at 1659 we're clicking their heels out the door faster than a speeding bullet.
In my state if I'm not there to pick up my children from daycare by 10 mins after closing, they are dropped off at the police department.
My husband is deployed quite frequently and base daycare does the very same thing plus the service member gets in trouble. No thanks!
At some point, you have to start demanding some things that are non negotiable. An emergency here and there is expected but every shift? Nope
I work the same amount of holidays, on call and overtime as my colleagues. I found a job where I'm always out on time.
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
Same here...a psych nurse but...our next shift nurse always comes late..10-15 mins., and we are always late getting out late due to report taking the full 30mins, if not more. We have tried talking to her about it. She feels we can give report in less time. I feel that is not her call. We have to report what we know is important. We have 8 hr shifts, and a lot of info needs to be passed along to the shift after her's, so we need to endorse certain details, and that takes time.
It's not easy to find good RNs where we work, so we just put up with it as management will not do anything about this. Sometimes you just have to suck it up. Not everything is perfect. She is a very good nurse. Plus, to all those that say that management needs to prepare for these unexpected situations that end up taking more time on the clock...FORGET IT! Not going to happen. In this climate of bottom lines, no management is going to provide for the "in case situations", because of cost. However, if you are in a position where OT is common and usual, then you do have a case for pressuring management to come up with a solution.
You need to call your supervisor every time they are late. I wait five minutes and begin report with whoever is there. I manage to get myself out of bed and my kid to school and myself to work on time.
Once report is done and we work 8's with some very detailed information for 17 to 20 patients. In your particular case if you call your nurse manager every time your relief is late and refuse to clock out until you actually stop working. They will eventually do something.
Probably, I should have described situation clearer. When I worked on the floor, we had a silly bedside handover, which means the coming staff were going from one room to another to receive the report about all the patients. It means that the last nurse will leave a job even 30min later or more, but the first one might finish couple of minutes earlier. And now who was saying that wants to be the first nurse to give the report? obviously mothers because they will always use the argument " I have kids to collect" that single childless person cannot beat. Important to mention, that people who had to overstay are not paid for this time. I know this is managment problem and I advocated to change it but unfortunately there is no will from managment for a change. I left but it sticks in my mind, why those nurses with kids cannot accept that sometimes they will give priority to single person and sometimes they will go first. Also I witnessed situation when nurses took personal call in the moment when It was important to do something for patient, for example checking narcotics together so pain medication are not delayed.. When I pointed out that it is not the moment for personal call, I was told that I dont understand because I dont have kids.
I really dont find it professional and also it is unpleasant to be told that you dont have kids so you can stay longer or you have no right to correct someone.
This sounds like the bigger issue is how report it handled. I do everything in my power to be ready for report before shift change. Sometimes, we would have to give report to two or three different nurses. I would look to see who I was giving report to and as soon as I saw them hit the floor, I would grab them. I've never worked somewhere that had a set order for which nurses could give report first. I am a parent, but my grabbing the next nurse ASAP had nothing to do with needing to get home to my children, and was completely about wanting to leave ASAP. If someone else noticed we both had to give report to the same person and asked if they could go first, I usually said yes and just found someone else to give report to. It sounds like you may have needed to advocate for yourself more in regards to giving report rather than waiting til everyone else was done. Either way, sounds like you left that place. I hope the report situation is better at your new place.
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but when it comes to him being properly equipped for the sports he participates in I go the extra mile. He's a good kid, gets decent grades and rarely gives me any trouble. He has earned money for things he has wanted that were not in the budget. Like a brand new pair of Air Jordan's he bought last year with money he earned working for my sister. 
wondern, ASN
694 Posts
I personally saw plenty of times where the nurses without children went home earlier than the ones with children. One time even when one nurse's middle school age daughter was known to be standing in front of the school waiting to be picked up for almost an hour after school was let out! Really depends so much on who you're working with! Mean people just suck! So do always statements~