Now that the Covid 19 vaccine is just around the corner... Will it be mandatory?

[NewRN'16]

Are we going to be able to refuse it, or will it be mandatory? 

I have had severe reactions to the influenza vaccine and eventually I declined it. 

Do we need to have a severe reaction in order for us to decline any further covid 19 vaccines? Or we could still opt out? 

What do you guys think? 

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, ohbejoyful said:

For example...

“it’s your duty to get the vaccine right when it comes out”

“Why would you think it’s appropriate to care for patients if your not willing to get the vaccine right when it comes out”

“Nurses who don’t want to get the vaccine right when it comes out probably will refuse to take covid assignments and use it as an excuse”

”disgruntled nurses who don’t feel comfortable taking the vaccine right when it comes out are ignoring evidence based practice”

These appear to be statements that are unethical social guilt and shaming pressure tactics with no effort to respect their peers personal medical choices regarding taking the vaccine right when it comes out. They are unfounded statements, we have safely cared for patients with and without covid by adhering  to PPE protocols and don’t see why that cant continue... we want more evidence so that doesn’t mean we ignore evidence we just want more of it.. it isn’t our duty to be first in line to take a brand new type of vaccine that was fast-tracked right when it comes out and a lot of people are uncomfortable and just want to wait a bit and see what happens without being pressured and judged  by our peers otherwise.

 

Thank you for that response.  Your explanation was helpful for me to understand the "shaming" language. 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

2 hours ago, NurseBlaq said:

I already addressed this several times. I don't want it. I don't feel like I need to explain on end why not when I've already addressed my concerns, as have others. If you don't understand it, then fine. I do and since it's my body that's really all that matters and I'm not trying to be facetious or hateful, I'm just tired of the nonsense at this point and done explaining it. Some get it, others don't, and some don't want to get it. We've made it this far so we can continue to wait because we want to and we want more evidence, not just the drug companies word. The end.

I wasn't asking you to explain yourself yet again, you've made yourself loud and clear.  However, I will express how I feel whether you or other posters like it or not, agree or not.   Maybe I should't have quoted you and just expressed myself.

I 100% support you and other in not wanting for your own personal reasons and will not shame you about it just because I don't feel the same.  I don't think I did, and perhaps I shouldn't have quoted you, even if I touched a nerve.

But yeah we "made it this far", to the tune of hospitals being overwhelmed, and 284,000 dead. 

The end.

[NurseBlaq]

1 hour ago, Tweety said:

I wasn't asking you to explain yourself yet again, you've made yourself loud and clear.  However, I will express how I feel whether you or other posters like it or not, agree or not.   Maybe I should't have quoted you and just expressed myself.

I 100% support you and other in not wanting for your own personal reasons and will not shame you about it just because I don't feel the same.  I don't think I did, and perhaps I shouldn't have quoted you, even if I touched a nerve.

But yeah we "made it this far", to the tune of hospitals being overwhelmed, and 284,000 dead. 

The end.

I was quoted so I was under the impression you were speaking directly to me. It did kind of touch a nerve because instead of people (maybe not you per se) addressing why people don't want it, they just keep the shaming tactics going (with the exception of the poster not wanting to even offer vax to their patients). Yes, we did "make it this far" despite people not wanting to wear masks, governors not ordering lockdowns, and politicians pretending like it was nothing....... not because a few nurses didn't take a vaccine that wasn't available but go off though. ?

It's that subliminal dig crap I don't like. You claim to be supportive but then it's the unnecessary extra drama.  Guess you just couldn't help it. SMH

[ohbejoyful]

4 hours ago, Tweety said:

Personally, I certainly agree with the idea to not force someone or shame someone into taking the vaccine and that bullying tactics have to stop. 

At the same time, it is baffling to me that nurses of all people, those that are practically on their hands and knees begging people to mitigate this virus and begging people to believe science are now going "meh, I'm not taking it" when it's been tested on tens of thousands of people and proven to be 90 to 95% effective.  

I don't understand the "I don't want to the be first" because we are not the first, there have been tens of thousands of people taking it first.  It get that there might be some unknowns.  Kind of reminds me that after it was proved how AIDS is spread people still didn't want to be around them "just in case".

This isn't me shaming them, it's me just not quite understanding it.  

I honestly can put myself in others shoes in this situation and imagine (if I felt  totally confident in taking this vaccine,) I would also be very frustrated at other nurses who didn’t feel the same.

With everything going on it is truly a nightmare in the hospitals right now. Covid cases are much higher at my hospital than ever before, our ICU staffing is so historically short staffed we are tripled every shift and have no admission plan constantly. We just opened another covid unit that we don’t have the nurses to staff which is stretching us even thinner and my coworkers continue to leave for travel assignments (cant blame them for wanting to make 4x their normal pay....) Work is causing me nightmares and I’m constantly picking up overtime to help.

I imagine this is a common scenario in ICUs all over the country. If I felt comfortable taking the vaccine right now I would be so irritated at others for seemingly having anything to do with prolonging the process of decreasing covid cases and moving towards improvement....

But I don’t feel comfortable yet, I want some solid diverse studies done by other people once the vaccine is released and I don’t want to risk my own health and future because I’m in such a rush to get back to normal I’ll do anything that is asked of me without even pausing for one second.

That freedom of choice is respectful and kind to those who feel uncomfortable right now. Forced mandates appear to just be another sacrifice nurses should be automatically willing to make as if we haven’t been facing the brunt of this pandemic all along, we have yet more to be expected of us, all while praising us as heros.. feels very twisted. 

In regards to the commend about AIDS, I personally volunteered in the covid unit at my hospital from day one in March of the pandemic when there were even more unknowns than ever regarding this virus. I was scared, I’m not going to lie, but I volunteered anyway and wanted to help the sick.

Meanwhile, Nobody would come on to the floor to help, doctors would pop in and out so fast you didn’t even see them, some simply ask “how do the patients lungs sound?” and we had constantly issues getting any ancillary staff to even collect and refill our oxygen tanks even after they were wiped down with heavy duty bleach. We had to constantly ask upper management to step in and hold ancillary staff accountable. Upper management including the infection control nurse was never there to see if we were okay, it was literally just us nurses all day in and out with these patients.

And these patients are so sick you could find yourself in a PAPR doing slow codes for 3 hours straight in aireborne rooms wondering why nobody would come help for even five minutes and why everyone was so scared they would just let you drown in the middle of a code even though we had tons of appropriate PPE ...

One time I called a code and we had someone come down to help with the other patients while we were coding our patient... whoever actually did come down to help rolled items on the floor towards the patients that requested them... literally rolled a can of Pepsi to my thirsty patient. because they were too scared to go in the patient’s room even though we had all the proper gear for them...

and nurses who don’t want to be first to take the vaccine continue to care for covid patients but we want a little respect and time in making our choice about being the first group of people to take the vaccine right away and we are viewed as the same kind of people who are equivalent to the nurses who were to scared to care for AIDS patients?

Hmmm... we aren’t scared of holding the hands of our sick patients, we are wary of being expected to be the very first people post release to receive an inoculation without any say in the matter. I’m not sure what you can compare this to but not that. 
 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, NurseBlaq said:

I was quoted so I was under the impression you were speaking directly to me. It did kind of touch a nerve because instead of people (maybe not you per se) addressing why people don't want it, they just keep the shaming tactics going (with the exception of the poster not wanting to even offer vax to their patients). Yes, we did "make it this far" despite people not wanting to wear masks, governors not ordering lockdowns, and politicians pretending like it was nothing....... not because a few nurses didn't take a vaccine that wasn't available but go off though. ?

It's that subliminal dig crap I don't like. You claim to be supportive but then it's the unnecessary extra drama.  Guess you just couldn't help it. SMH

Fair enough.  I don't mind being called out.  I understand you don't like what I said.

However, even though I said I don't understand why nurses aren't going to take the vaccine, it certainly doesn't mean that I can't say "that's your right to refuse and I support that".   I regret that you see that as unnecessary extra drama or subliminal dig crap because that wasn't my intention, but I can't tell you how to feel.

 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, ohbejoyful said:

I honestly can put myself in others shoes in this situation and imagine (if I felt  totally confident in taking this vaccine,) I would also be very frustrated at other nurses who didn’t feel the same.

With everything going on it is truly a nightmare in the hospitals right now. Covid cases are much higher at my hospital than ever before, our ICU staffing is so historically short staffed we are tripled every shift and have no admission plan constantly. We just opened another covid unit that we don’t have the nurses to staff which is stretching us even thinner and my coworkers continue to leave for travel assignments (cant blame them for wanting to make 4x their normal pay....) Work is causing me nightmares and I’m constantly picking up overtime to help.

I imagine this is a common scenario in ICUs all over the country. If I felt comfortable taking the vaccine right now I would be so irritated at others for seemingly having anything to do with prolonging the process of decreasing covid cases and moving towards improvement....

But I don’t feel comfortable yet, I want some solid diverse studies done by other people once the vaccine is released and I don’t want to risk my own health and future because I’m in such a rush to get back to normal I’ll do anything that is asked of me without even pausing for one second.

That freedom of choice is respectful and kind to those who feel uncomfortable right now. Forced mandates appear to just be another sacrifice nurses should be automatically willing to make as if we haven’t been facing the brunt of this pandemic all along, we have yet more to be expected of us, all while praising us as heros.. feels very twisted. 

In regards to the commend about AIDS, I personally volunteered in the covid unit at my hospital from day one in March of the pandemic when there were even more unknowns than ever regarding this virus. I was scared, I’m not going to lie, but I volunteered anyway and wanted to help the sick.

Meanwhile, Nobody would come on to the floor to help, doctors would pop in and out so fast you didn’t even see them, some simply ask “how do the patients lungs sound?” and we had constantly issues getting any ancillary staff to even collect and refill our oxygen tanks even after they were wiped down with heavy duty bleach. We had to constantly ask upper management to step in and hold ancillary staff accountable. Upper management including the infection control nurse was never there to see if we were okay, it was literally just us nurses all day in and out with these patients.

And these patients are so sick you could find yourself in a PAPR doing slow codes for 3 hours straight in aireborne rooms wondering why nobody would come help for even five minutes and why everyone was so scared they would just let you drown in the middle of a code even though we had tons of appropriate PPE ...

One time I called a code and we had someone come down to help with the other patients while we were coding our patient... whoever actually did come down to help rolled items on the floor towards the patients that requested them... literally rolled a can of Pepsi to my thirsty patient. because they were too scared to go in the patient’s room even though we had all the proper gear for them...

and nurses who don’t want to be first to take the vaccine continue to care for covid patients but we want a little respect and time in making our choice about being the first group of people to take the vaccine right away and we are viewed as the same kind of people who are equivalent to the nurses who were to scared to care for AIDS patients?

Hmmm... we aren’t scared of holding the hands of our sick patients, we are wary of being expected to be the very first people post release to receive an inoculation without any say in the matter. I’m not sure what you can compare this to but not that. 
 

Well said.  

Covid cases where I work are rising.  Last week we had 10 people in ICU and today it's 26.  In the scheme of things that's still better than other places in the country.  

I live in Florida and while we don't have any restrictions our economy based on tourism and Canadians coming down for the Winter is devastated.  I just want this to end with what we have...social distancing, masks, hand washing, avoiding crowds, etc. and now the vaccine.  As I've already stated, while I don't quite get it, if people don't want to take the vaccine, nurses included, I'm libertarian enough to say that's okay. The facility I work for has already announced the vaccine is not mandatory for employees.  People shouldn't be shamed or harassed if they have the information and want to refuse, or just wait it out a bit longer.  Who knows?  It could be a good decision.    

At the end of the day there isn't an easy way for me to state my opinion without someone with an opposite opinion feeling slightly or greatly offended or attacked.  That comes with taking a stand and expressing that stand.  

Thanks for all you do.  

 

[ohbejoyful]

6 minutes ago, Tweety said:

Well said.  

Covid cases where I work are rising.  Last week we had 10 people in ICU and today it's 26.  In the scheme of things that's still better than other places in the country.  

I live in Florida and while we don't have any restrictions our economy based on tourism and Canadians coming down for the Winter is devastated.  I just want this to end with what we have...social distancing, masks, hand washing, avoiding crowds, etc. and now the vaccine.  As I've already stated, while I don't quite get it, if people don't want to take the vaccine, nurses included, I'm libertarian enough to say that's okay. The facility I work for has already announced the vaccine is not mandatory for employees.

Thanks for all you do.  

 

I really appreciate finding common ground on here ... it is a beacon of hope that we can have constructive disagreements in an effort to understand ourselves and others. Again, I don’t blame people for being frustrated especially when it can be hard to understand .. but being able to respect other nurses to make their own choices while also feeling differently about it  represents empathy and open mindedness and I truly appreciate you! Thank you ?

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

1 minute ago, ohbejoyful said:

I really appreciate finding common ground on here ... it is a beacon of hope that we can have constructive disagreements in an effort to understand ourselves and others. Again, I don’t blame people for being frustrated especially when it can be hard to understand .. but being able to respect other nurses to make their own choices while also feeling differently about it  represents empathy and open mindedness and I truly appreciate you! Thank you ?

Thank you too.  ?

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

9 hours ago, Tweety said:

Personally, I certainly agree with the idea to not force someone or shame someone into taking the vaccine and that bullying tactics have to stop. 

At the same time, it is baffling to me that nurses of all people, those that are practically on their hands and knees begging people to mitigate this virus and begging people to believe science are now going "meh, I'm not taking it" when it's been tested on tens of thousands of people and proven to be 90 to 95% effective.  

I don't understand the "I don't want to the be first" because we are not the first, there have been tens of thousands of people taking it first.  It get that there might be some unknowns.  Kind of reminds me that after it was proved how AIDS is spread people still didn't want to be around them "just in case".

This isn't me shaming them, it's me just not quite understanding it.  

......with the population of the world being close to 8 billion, 10's of thousands (Lets say 50,000 for arguments sake) is less than 7 percent of the worlds population so a very small sample. This vaccine hasn't been out long enough to be PROVEN 90-95% effective. Nor can we say that there are no proven negative side effects. We would need at least a year's worth of data collection to make such a claim with confidence. 

That being said I have pretty much made up my mind to get the vaccine. I have multiple auto-immune dysfunctions and I would dearly like to be around to hold my Grand babies should my son decide to produce any. 

As a Libertarian, I have never been a fan of forced (Mandated) anything. However I do work in an "At Will" employment state so while my employer may not be able to fire me for not getting vaccinated they can and a most likely would let me go either as a RIF or for no reason whatsoever.

Does anyone remember that movie I am legend. Where the Will Smith Character creates a "Safe, effective vaccine" for the AIDS virus and everyone is promptly innoculated. Six months to a year later vaccinated people start turning into crazed flesh eating zombie like creatures. 

Did you know that the Federal Govt, including the CDC and NASA ahave developed a plane called CONOP 8888-11 to counter Zombie Dominance. Years of research and federal funds went into developing it and yet the US was totally unprepared for COVID 19. 

'CONPLAN 8888': The US Government Plan To Fend Off The Zombie Apocalypse (ibtimes.com)

[NurseBlaq]

Now hugs and smooches and all of that. Sorry y'all, I had to add it because that's what I pictured reading these responses. ?

[NurseBlaq]

3 minutes ago, hppygr8ful said:

......with the population of the world being close to 8 billion, 10's of thousands (Lets say 50,000 for arguments sake) is less than 7 percent of the worlds population so a very small sample. This vaccine hasn't been out long enough to be PROVEN 90-95% effective. Nor can we say that there are no proven negative side effects. We would need at least a year's worth of data collection to make such a claim with confidence. 

That being said I have pretty much made up my mind to get the vaccine. I have multiple auto-immune dysfunctions and I would dearly like to be around to hold my Grand babies should my son decide to produce any. 

As a Libertarian, I have never been a fan of forced (Mandated) anything. However I do work in an "At Will" employment state so while my employer may not be able to fire me for not getting vaccinated they can and a most likely would let me go either as a RIF or for no reason whatsoever.

Does anyone remember that movie I am legend. Where the Will Smith Character creates a "Safe, effective vaccine" for the AIDS virus and everyone is promptly innoculated. Six months to a year later vaccinated people start turning into crazed flesh eating zombie like creatures. 

Did you know that the Federal Govt, including the CDC and NASA ahave developed a plane called CONOP 8888-11 to counter Zombie Dominance. Years of research and federal funds went into developing it and yet the US was totally unprepared for COVID 19. WOW

https_kotaku.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fkotaku.com%2Fthe-us-military-has-a-real-plan-to-fight-the-zombie-apo-1576586987%23%3A~%3Atext%3DThe%2520United%2520States%2520military%2520has%2520a%2520plan%2520to%2CYou%2520can%2520check%2520it%2520out%252C%2520in%2520full%252C%2520below.

Never saw that movie but that sounds like a crazy plot and the plane thing is just wow.

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

Just now, NurseBlaq said:

Never saw that movie but that sounds like a crazy plot and the plane thing is just wow.

We have been streaming a lot of good end of the world movies at home these past months.