Not-for-profit vs for-profit colleges...did this make a difference?

lrobinson5 · Jun 4, 2011

I think that it isn't necessarily whether it is for-profit or not, just WHICH for-profit college you went to. Harvard is a for-profit college, and so is the University of Phoenix. There is a world of difference between the two

KeepItRealRN, BSN, RN · Jun 4, 2011

The way I see it, what divides worthwhile for profit colleges is whether or not they need to advertise. A school with a stellar repuatation and results does not need to advertise. More people want to go to those schools then they have seats for and thus can be more selective on the qualifications to get in. For the for profit schools that advertise the only admission requirement is the ability to write them a check and have sufficient funds to back it up.

UGADawgs · Jun 4, 2011

Harvard is a for-profit college, and so is the University of Phoenix. There is a world of difference between the two

Harvard absolutely is not a for-profit institution. Private does does not mean "for profit."

lrobinson5 · Jun 4, 2011

Harvard absolutely is not a for-profit institution. Private does does not mean "for profit."

Argh, I always get mixed up on that, same with which hospitals in my area are what. The main point still holds true though. I am sure there are reputable for-profit colleges and some really bad ones. I'm sure they look at where you went as opposed to discriminating no matter which college it was.

caliotter3 · Jun 4, 2011

Argh, I always get mixed up on that, same with which hospitals in my area are what. The main point still holds true though. I am sure there are reputable for-profit colleges and some really bad ones. I'm sure they look at where you went as opposed to discriminating no matter which college it was.

Your point still holds. I understood what you meant.

AJPV · Jun 4, 2011

The very first thing you want to look at is the accreditations the school has. For-profit schools that are not good often have ONLY a national accreditation, but lack the all-important regional accreditation. An example of regional accreditation is The Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools. If the school doesn't have regional accreditation, RUN AWAY!! Most of the worst for-profit schools possess only national accreditation.

Then you also want to look at accreditations that are specific to our major/profession. For nursing, these are the most important:

The National League for Nursing Accrediting Commission, Inc.

Your state board of nursing

Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education (this one is only relevant for BSN & grad programs)

Checking accreditation is only a starting point, but it should be an absolute disqualification if a school doesn't meet these standards. Also, don't just take the school's word for it that they are actually accredited by certain agencies. Look up the name of the school at the actual accrediting agency's website to verify their truthfulness. Report the school to the agency if they are falsely claiming accreditation. There are a lot of for-profit schools out there built on pure fraud. That's why this issue has been in the national news the last couple days.

happyinillinois · Jun 4, 2011

Why is regional accrediation important? Thanks!

AJPV · Jun 4, 2011

Regional accreditation is far more difficult for a school to achieve - it has a strong tendency to weed out schools that are either sub-par academically or that are little more than barely-legal money collection scams. If you earn a "degree" from a school that does not have regional accreditation, you will find it very difficult to transfer those credits or go to grad school at a reputable school that does possess regional accreditation. I don't know all the in's & out's of regional versus national accreditation. But after reading several news articles from education experts, I have noticed that this seems to be their #1 tip: always insist on regional accreditation when choosing a school. A regionally-accredited school is also far less inclined to deceptively advertise a "degree" in an area of study that sounds promising but is actually almost entirely un-employable in the promised profession. You'll notice that all the reputable public state schools as well as private schools have regional accreditation.

Here is a list of the 6 regional accreditations to look for the US:

http://www.back2college.com/library/accreditfaq.htm

33762FL · Jun 4, 2011

I worked in human resources for a while, although not in the healthcare industry. Resumes with degrees from for-profit colleges (University of Phoenix, Devry, Kaplan, Walden, ITT Tech, Art Institute, Capella, Grand Canyon, etc.) went right into the trash. Even if the undergraduate degree was from a state U or a private-non-profit and then they had a Master's or MBA from Phoenix or Kaplan, it was trashed. Basically it showed that the person had poor enough judgement to get an overpriced degree from a for-profit degree mill rather than go to their state university or a private non-profit for less money.

Again, an RN-BSN bridge seems like the same course work no matter where you obtain it, but why would you pay more for it when you can get a better bargain and show HR that you chose this option over others?

AJPV · Jun 4, 2011

You can pick up on some obvious clues if you talk on the phone with these worthless "schools." They often sound like they're trying to sell you a used car and press you for a "decision" on the spot. They are overly accomodating in accepting "transfer credit" from your previous schooling without even inquiring about the accreditation of your previous schools. They will even tell you they will count "life experience" as transfer credit! The person on the phone won't be able to give you detailed academic or technical information about your program. If you ask such questions, instead of referring you to a real professor who is academically qualified, they will instead manipulate the conversation and re-direct you to make an on-the-spot decision as an "investment in your future." They will also seem overly accomodating with an almost infinite number of "starting dates," and a course "schedule" that is so flexible it is really a stretch to even call it a "schedule." You will notice that email/web contact is pretty much the only way to interact with your "instructor." You have no way of knowing if that person is a real-life degreed & credentialed nurse, or if it is a minimum-wage worker posing as an instructor in a coffee shop. Your bets are better placed on the latter.

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Jun 4, 2011

I worked in human resources for a while, although not in the healthcare industry. Resumes with degrees from for-profit colleges (University of Phoenix, Devry, Kaplan, Walden, ITT Tech, Art Institute, Capella, Grand Canyon, etc.) went right into the trash. Even if the undergraduate degree was from a state U or a private-non-profit and then they had a Master's or MBA from Phoenix or Kaplan, it was trashed. Basically it showed that the person had poor enough judgement to get an overpriced degree from a for-profit degree mill rather than go to their state university or a private non-profit for less money.
Again, an RN-BSN bridge seems like the same course work no matter where you obtain it, but why would you pay more for it when you can get a better bargain and show HR that you chose this option over others?

Threw them in the trash, based on what?

I have actually looked at EVERY Nurse Educator program in my state...yes, pulled up every single one of them. There are things that I need to "fit"...I need a distance education program and I do not wish to take the GRE's because I have had a 15 year gap in my education...otherwise, I would take it.

I want an academically based Nurse Educator program...not clinically based. That is also, hard to find.

So, by the time you get to my list...that nixes out the programs in my state, then when you move to out-of-state distance based programs, then you get into out-of-state tuition...so that should allow me to pick and choose.

All of the states in my immediate geographical area have up to $20,000 loan forgiveness if you sign a contract to teach nursing school...so that is how I plan to pay part of my loans off, which will take care of all but a small portion of them (I am paying for most of it myself)...so where is the bad judgement in that?

Course STRUCTURE also plays a role...one of the programs that I am looking at only requires me to take ONE course at a time...which allows me to focus fully on it and do well...that makes it manageable when I have to work full time along with two children.

If you ask me..people that graduate with $100K in loans when they won't even be making that in a year so they can avoid waiting lists and go to out-of-state or private schools...have shown worse judgment, if I go by your criteria.

**********************

Now, with that said...I am still waiting to hear from someone that has actually EARNED one of these degrees and is using it in a career.