My cohorts hate me

toomuchbaloney · Nov 30

It's difficult to have nuanced conversations about complicated and trigger laden topics with unfamiliar people you must work closely with, especially if you aren't speaking in your native language. I agree that another, more intentional, conversation is appropriate to clarify misunderstandings and intentions.

Good luck.

Trauma Columnist · Dec 2

May not be a popular opinion but maybe just ignore everyone. No reason to have friends in nursing school - get thru it and move on. Some things to consider:

1. Nursing school is only a few years - you will have many more years of nursing practice.

2. Keep conversations very superficial - the weather, etc.

3. Look to others that are quiet and observant and model their behavior

Best wishes - nursing school will be over before you know it. Take care

RN_fr, BSN · Dec 2

Sounds super toxic.

I strongly agree with what Trauma Columnist outlined above to consider for your situation. Just keep your eye on the goal, and you won't have to see them after ever again.

DISCLAIMER—-if any of the following below jives with what you're going through, then I hope it's been helpful. But if I am way off base, you can disregard it. Also please forgive me for the formatting and errors, I'm writing from my mobile.

—It sucks to have to keep things superficial but its to protect yourself. I definitely wouldn't share any more of my thoughts or opinions. Anything you say will be weaponized against you... like it already has been.

It's natural to want to build meaningful relationships, but because of the hostile environment. some may befriend only to gather intel for further abuse. So it's imperative to vet everyone before opening up and don't try to "win them over" because thatll mean you're becoming more like them, and less like yourself.

you've been targeted by a narcissist(s) and their enablers (supporters).

and it looks like they wasted no time in a smear campaign against you.

This isn't going to be easy, but the BEST thing you can do at this point is to go what's called "grey rock". (Do a search on that)

KEY POINTS:

GASLIGHTING is the game, don't play it!

Do NOT defend against false accusations. Do NOT react.

Do NOT call them out on their toxic behavior.

Doing any of the above will make things worse.

Grey Rock all the way

They're going to say all sorts of things to get you to react. Do not defend that which is untrue, they're not looking to understand so the more you plead your case the more guilty you'll look. Just Like when they accused you , then taunt you "you know what you did" -they WANT to see you get frustrated, emotional and defensive. It's a twisted and sick game but this is how some people get their jollies off.

Remember, it's YOUR reaction they are looking for, so don't give it to them!!

It's a sick game you didn't sign up for or want to be in but you react, they win and the abuse will continue.

Things may get worse at first if they decide to ramp up their toxicity. But narcissists need supply like an addict needs a fix. You stop being the supply when you stop reacting. Eventually, they'll get bored with you and you'll see they move on to another target.

Stand firmly in who you are as a person, know who you are as a person, and be confident in that.

Narcs have no identity, and envious of those that do.

TLDR, haters are going to hate. Let them.

Barriss Offee · 2024-12-04T15:46:12Z

You said: "all races hate asians. I might be able to complain, you guys cannot." I was joking (maybe I should not have said that),

Why did you say this? What is this supposed to mean exactly? Saying stuff like this is not how you make friends and will definitely make enemies. This sounds purposefully targeting, like you are trying to foster conflict. If you were to say things like this in the workplace, you could easily be disciplined for it.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · 2024-12-04T23:47:33Z

Barriss Offee said:

You said: "all races hate asians. I might be able to complain, you guys cannot." I was joking (maybe I should not have said that),

Why did you say this? What is this supposed to mean exactly? Saying stuff like this is not how you make friends and will definitely make enemies. This sounds purposefully targeting, like you are trying to foster conflict. If you were to say things like this in the workplace, you could easily be disciplined for it.

For goodness' sake, lighten up. The OP was joking. The real problem is that people are way too sensitive now. Asian culture is different from American culture. Asians routinely say things to other Asians that would be considered very rude in American culture. For example, it is common in Korea and China to point blank tell someone they are fat, just like that. In China, "fatty" can be an affectionate nickname. Try that in the US and people will start crying, report the speaker, and so on. So we need to understand there are cultural differences - something nursing students should be learning.

I agree with some of the other posters:

1. Only talk about trivial stuff until you know someone really well.

2. I doubt that group of students are the only students in your cohort. Look for other students that are not such crybabies and jerks to become friendly with.

Barriss Offee · 2024-12-04T23:58:57Z

FullGlass said:

For goodness' sake, lighten up. The OP was joking. The real problem is that people are way too sensitive now. Asian culture is different from American culture. Asians routinely say things to other Asians that would be considered very rude in American culture. For example, it is common in Korea and China to point blank tell someone they are fat, just like that. In China, "fatty" can be an affectionate nickname. Try that in the US and people will start crying, report the speaker, and so on. So we need to understand there are cultural differences - something nursing students should be learning.

I agree with some of the other posters:

1. Only talk about trivial stuff until you know someone really well.

2. I doubt that group of students are the only students in your cohort. Look for other students that are not such crybabies and jerks to become friendly with.

I am Asian, born of an immigrant family from Pacific Asia whose mother speaks Korean and whose father speaks Japanese. I don't need you to explain Asian culture to me. That doesn't give me or anyone else the right to make inappropriate racial jokes in a professional setting. Nursing school is a professional setting and thusly demands professional behaviors regardless of what your peers say first. It's not the rest of the professional world's job to accommodate my sense of humor and my sensitivities. Professional behavior standards exist for everyone. By your statement, it would be acceptable to call someone a "fatty" in the workplace and use race as an excuse regardless of how unprofessional that statement is.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · 2024-12-05T18:21:06Z

Barriss Offee said:

I am Asian, born of an immigrant family from Pacific Asia whose mother speaks Korean and whose father speaks Japanese. I don't need you to explain Asian culture to me. That doesn't give me or anyone else the right to make inappropriate racial jokes in a professional setting. Nursing school is a professional setting and thusly demands professional behaviors regardless of what your peers say first. It's not the rest of the professional world's job to accommodate my sense of humor and my sensitivities. Professional behavior standards exist for everyone. By your statement, it would be acceptable to call someone a "fatty" in the workplace and use race as an excuse regardless of how unprofessional that statement is.

I sure wouldn't want to work with you. I am half Korean, lived in Korea, and originally majored in East Asian Studies at Yale. So I do indeed know a lot about Asian culture, history, economics, and art. And I am free to comment on this and any other topic.

Constantly taking offense over perceived issues is a great recipe for being unhappy. The OP clearly meant no harm.

Barriss Offee · 2024-12-05T18:50:07Z

FullGlass said:

I sure wouldn't want to work with you. I am half Korean, lived in Korea, and originally majored in East Asian Studies at Yale. So I do indeed know a lot about Asian culture, history, economics, and art. And I am free to comment on this and any other topic.

Constantly taking offense over perceived issues is a great recipe for being unhappy. The OP clearly meant no harm.

This has nothing to do with taking offense to anything. This is simply about professionalism in a workplace/training program setting. You are absolutely free to comment on any topic, and so am I. The fact that I disagree with the appropriateness of the language used in what OP describes as a the setting of a professional training program has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not someone should perceive humor as a personal attack. Even if OP didn't "mean" any harm, that does not mean that OP's behaviors represented professional standards. I don't know why you keep bringing up taking offense or making attempts at humor. I am not questioning OP's motives. I am questioning OP's lack of professionalism in what is supposed to be a professional setting. Saying, "All races hate Asians. I can complain, but you guys can't," to a group of black peers is not how you fostor collaboration and teamwork in a professional setting. I truly don't care whether or not you or anyone else likes this standard or wants to work with me because of my position regarding professionalism in the workplace as how you or anyone else feels about it will not change the professionalism standards that need to met in professional settings. A professional training program like a pre-licensure RN program needs to be treated with professionalism regardless of how your peers speak or behave. You come in on time, you wear your uniform or clothing within the guidelines of the pre-licensure student handbook, and you behave amongst and speak to your peers with professionalism. Telling a group of students of a different race something completely unwarranted because you are of a different race in an effort to, what sounds like, win a competition of who is the bigger victim, is both widely inappropriate and unprofessional. Just because you may not like this does not change the truth of the situation. Facts don't care about your feelings. It's not a competition about who is the bigger victim and is allowed to make certain jokes or whether humor was the intention. You have a job to do when in a professional setting and that is to be professional, work well as a member of the nursing and interdisciplinary team, and take good care of your patients.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · 2024-12-05T20:21:36Z

Barriss Offee said:

This has nothing to do with taking offense to anything. This is simply about professionalism in a workplace/training program setting. You are absolutely free to comment on any topic, and so am I. The fact that I disagree with the appropriateness of the language used in what OP describes as a the setting of a professional training program has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not someone should perceive humor as a personal attack. Even if OP didn't "mean" any harm, that does not mean that OP's behaviors represented professional standards. I don't know why you keep bringing up taking offense or making attempts at humor. I am not questioning OP's motives. I am questioning OP's lack of professionalism in what is supposed to be a professional setting. Saying, "All races hate Asians. I can complain, but you guys can't," to a group of black peers is not how you fostor collaboration and teamwork in a professional setting. I truly don't care whether or not you or anyone else likes this standard or wants to work with me because of my position regarding professionalism in the workplace as how you or anyone else feels about it will not change the professionalism standards that need to met in professional settings. A professional training program like a pre-licensure RN program needs to be treated with professionalism regardless of how your peers speak or behave. You come in on time, you wear your uniform or clothing within the guidelines of the pre-licensure student handbook, and you behave amongst and speak to your peers with professionalism. Telling a group of students of a different race something completely unwarranted because you are of a different race in an effort to, what sounds like, win a competition of who is the bigger victim, is both widely inappropriate and unprofessional. Just because you may not like this does not change the truth of the situation. Facts don't care about your feelings. It's not a competition about who is the bigger victim and is allowed to make certain jokes or whether humor was the intention. You have a job to do when in a professional setting and that is to be professional, work well as a member of the nursing and interdisciplinary team, and take good care of your patients.

You are coming across as very heavy handed. I said in my original reply that I agreed with other responses to only talk about trivial matters unless one knows the other people very well. The OP is in school, not on the job. Furthermore, she was speaking during a lunch break, not during class or clinical rotation. I have 20 years experience as a business executive and now almost 10 years as an NP. I would not expect a student of any sort to maintain the same level of formality during a lunch break as when they are working. My point is the OP comes from another culture and may not be familiar with the fine points of American culture and norms. If you are a nurse, then you should know about different cultural norms. Someone may say something that in their culture is just fine, but in our culture might be offensive to some. So cut them some slack. In addition, the OP already feels bad. Your response is not doing anything to provide them with some reassurance. A high-handed lecture is not helpful. As a result of this incident, and comments like yours, people like the OP are likely to clam up, feel like they are walking on eggshells and not want to talk to anyone.

Barriss Offee · 2024-12-05T20:31:03Z

FullGlass said:

You are coming across as very heavy handed. I said in my original reply that I agreed with other responses to only talk about trivial matters unless one knows the other people very well. In addition, the OP already feels bad. Your response is not doing anything to provide them with some reassurance. A high-handed lecture is not helpful.

I am confused regarding what your message is here. You accuse me of being someone who would be unpleasant to work with, constantly taking issue with perceived-only offenses, being overly sensitive, and not providing reassurance. How did you extrapolate all of this from my position regarding professionalism in the training program/workplace setting?

JKL33 · 2024-12-08T14:05:19Z

Barriss Offee said:

You said: "all races hate asians. I might be able to complain, you guys cannot." I was joking (maybe I should not have said that),

Why did you say this? What is this supposed to mean exactly? Saying stuff like this is not how you make friends and will definitely make enemies. This sounds purposefully targeting, like you are trying to foster conflict. If you were to say things like this in the workplace, you could easily be disciplined for it.

Agree with majority of your post/advice though I did read the OP's comment as an attempt at comaraderie/commiseration gone wrong rather than purposely trying to foster conflict. I think it was one of those things that when it comes out of your mouth you can just feel that you did not convey what you meant to or that it instantly is not received in the way you meant. Comaraderie/commiseration may have been achieved if s/he had just said, "I hear ya, everybody hates Asians..." and left it at that. It's the latter part that, perhaps in translation, the attempt at sarcasm/humor/commiseration was lost. But it's also very clear from what they came back and said to the OP that to some extent they chose to take offense on grounds that they knew she could not be referring to.

Agree w/ most all the advice above me. This kind of bantering should be avoided like the plague. It will only lead to trouble including possible discipline as you said, or worse.