My Visit to China: Could This Be A Reason Why Coronavirus Started There?

I've visited China and the wet markets where the coronavirus is believed to have started. With the conditions I saw it's not surprising that this is where the outbreak may have begun. Nurses COVID News

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With all the talk about the coronavirus, I wanted to share my experiences visiting China. A few years ago I traveled to Beijing and Shanghai as a tourist. While the country is amazing and has some unbelievable attractions, it is also obvious that they are still a developing nation.

Common Local Food Options

The first difference that I noticed was the choice of food options. Although they have McDonald’s and KFC they also have some local dishes that many in America would not put on the menu. I saw whole fish with the fins and scales served on a plate, mammals I won’t mention, and snakes. The latter is at the center of coronavirus issue as it’s suggested that a bat was eaten by a snake who then was eaten by a person.

Open-Air Wet Markets

While eating odd foods isn’t a bad thing, Andrew Zimmern has made a career of it, how the food is prepped in China is an issue. While in Shanghai I visited what they call a “wet market.” Several websites are claiming the coronavirus, and previously SARS started in wet markets. Think of a farmer’s market but the butchering of the animals happens behind the counter and the raw meat is hung in the open air. China Street Butcher Not only are they butchering pigs, ducks and chickens there are also stands with live frogs, eels, snakes and turtles. It’s not very sanitary and there are no regulations on how they discard the entrails. One moment a man could be butchering a snake, the next he could be handling a raw piece of pork before selling it to the consumer. The market was open-air even during the summer months. Raw meat sat out in 85-degree temperatures. The worst part was the unsanitary conditions. The animal waste, including feces, wasn’t discarded away from the food. I’m honestly surprised more people don’t get sick.

Human Waste Disposal

Another issue in China is how they deal with human waste. Many of the big cities are westernized when it comes to plumbing but even in cities like Beijing and Shanghai, it is not rare to come across squat toilets. Squat toilet - China The squat toilet is just what it sounds like. In nice areas, they can be made of porcelain, like the attached picture, but in many spots, they are made of metal or wood. They are essentially a hole in the floor that you squat over to do your business. Again, the sanitation of these toilets is not great, especially if the previous user was careless with their aim. Another issue with Chinese restrooms is that in most you are not allowed to flush the toilet paper. In many areas, the plumbing isn’t capable of handling the waste paper. So what do people do with the waste paper? They place it in a garbage can or open bin. And again, the sanitation varies on whether or not the previous user cared to hit the bin with their waste paper. Even in restaurants and bars in the cities, I saw overflowing bins of used waste paper. That was in major cities like Beijing and Shanghai. The situation was worse in more rural areas.

Disease Transmission

All of these poor practices can contribute to the spread of illness. The overall attitude though is not one of cleanliness and sanitation. Washing your hands after butchering an animal or going to the restroom is not seen as necessary in many parts of the country. For China to stem the tide of illness, and prevent future issues, they really need to change public attitudes around hygiene. The coronavirus can be spread via infected secretions, fecal matter or by a cough or sneeze. China’s hygiene standards increase the odds of all those possibilities.

Images provided by the author

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.
1 hour ago, HappyMom5 said:

I think anyone should be able to post their experiences and feelings about those experiences without getting criticism.

That's just intellectual laziness.

58 minutes ago, Daisy4RN said:

It is neither bias nor unsubstantiated (and therefore not racist either) to repeat the facts as stated by officials. Add to that, there is nothing wrong with sharing ones personal experience, and especially for the purpose of having a discussion about how poor hygiene affects health and wellness. It just so happens that this virus was first id'd in China, hence the discussion about the markets. Makes perfect sense (ie common sense) to me!

I agree, and it also seems like those here who are accusing people of being racist are the ones making the most rude and insensitive comments, IMO.

Pish posh. You are neglecting the insensitive parts of the article and cherry-picking the uncontested parts to dismiss the premise of the rebuke -red herring retort.

2 hours ago, Emergent said:

The racism accusation was a bit much, I agree. My point was, America is an unhealthy country. American corporations have sent cigarettes and soda pop to other countries for a profit, wrecking havoc across the world.

Yet now there's a backlash against some Chinese practices that Americans look down on. The article reeks of cultural superiority.

How I wish most Americans could get mirrors for presents on this Valentines day. Introspection is deeply needed in this nation. There is a staggering lack of insightfulness and self-reflection.

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." Mark Twain.

Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).

There is nothing inherently unsanitary about squat toilets. Some would argue they are MORE sanitary since you are not sitting on a toilet seat that other people have sat on. People who are used to squat toilets think sitting on a toilet is disgusting, because who knows who else has sat there? Squat toilets are the norm in large parts of the world. In addition, squatting makes it easier to poop - that's why the Squatty Potty was invented. I have lived in and traveled to 3rd world countries and did not see people "missing" when using a squat toilet. The only exception was Nepal where they literally cut a slit in the floor - that one is hard to get the hang of.

Honestly, I've been appalled at how filthy some Americans are when using a public restroom - urine all over the seat, unflushed toilet, etc. And women who still evidently try to flush tampons down the toilet. Is there any toilet where it is okay to do this?

As for not being able to flush toilet paper, these are POOR countries and their infrastructure needs upgrading. As long as toilet paper is placed in the proper bin, I don't see why this is an issue. It's not like anyone is going to go rummaging in used TP!

As for food prep - the US is hardly the epitome of sanitary practices, either. I suggest reading "Fast Food Nation" for a stomach-churning description of modern butchering and food processing. How many outbreaks of E Coli have we had due to contaminated food processing equipment? Do you know that most dairy farmers won't drink their own milk because they know it is full of pus and other crap?

Specializes in ICU + Infection Prevention.
1 hour ago, cynical-RN said:

You are making my point.

Your point is fluid depending on the counterpoint. Your style of argumentation is disingenuous. You are a waste of time.

The general style of outrage culture expressed in this thread suppresses expression and stifles debate because nobody is in a hurry to have their innocent contribution misconstrued as racist by the PC police.

3 minutes ago, SummitRN said:

Your point is fluid depending on the counterpoint. Your style of argumentation is disingenuous. You are a waste of time.

The general style of outrage culture expressed in this thread suppresses expression and stifles debate because nobody is in a hurry to have their innocent contribution misconstrued as racist.

Another ad hominem response from you. Height of hypocrisy for someone chastizing and bemoaning decency in the expression of views. "Waste of time", yet your own indignity compelled you to respond. Whose time are you wasting? I haven't labeled anyone as racist. Check your receipts. Don't flatter your own true character ?

Specializes in ER.

I noticed that people on Internet Posting sites like to use the word disingenuous. It's been used twice on this post as far as I remember. I think it's been used incorrectly. I will provide the definition below.

dis·in·gen·u·ous

/ˌdisənˈjenyo͞oəs/

adjective

not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.

"this journalist was being somewhat disingenuous as well as cynical"

I think that the people who are accused of being disingenuous are totally sincere. I don't think that they are pretending to know less than they know in order to further their point.

I'm tired of seeing this disingenuous be used on the internet when nobody uses it in real life.

Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
3 hours ago, SummitRN said:

The general style of outrage culture expressed in this thread suppresses expression and stifles debate because nobody is in a hurry to have their innocent contribution misconstrued as racist by the PC police.

Yes, I think there are many valid points on which to criticize the article. The best approach would be to address the specific points of contention, especially the ones that stood out as particularly culturally insensitive. We could have all learned from that and maybe become aware of our own inherent biases. Keeping the emotion out of it would make anyone's point of view more credible, not less.

But the name-calling and rage and personal attacks smack of self-righeousness and moral superiority, which, in my opinion, are no better than blatant racism. And they do shut down any chance of a real conversation about anything.

All I know is diseases have the potential to, and many have actually, come from bush meat. The ins and outs of China is subjective. Bush meat producing disease is fact. Wet markets aren't too healthy and we all should know this as healthcare professionals.

8 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:

There is a big difference between a legit criticism and calling people names (racist, bigot, xenophobe, Eurocentric etc). IMO, some people are way too PC and it shuts conversations down and can also interfere with the delivery of healthcare.

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/12/political-correctness-interferes-healthcare.html

People should not even have to call names in the first place if people are competent enough to know the cultural differences. This isn't a new material given it was started by none other than Madeleine Leininger in 1950s.

Conversations are not shut down but being "Politically Correct." If anything, It's the refusal of accepting the faults by people like you that interferes with the delivery of healthcare.

The useless article you linked has nothing to do with race. Fatness and Racial discriminations are not the same. My comment regards to fat people were to show that you cannot expect zero criticism for expressing your opinions.

8 hours ago, Daisy4RN said:

I think the problem is that everyone is more concerned about being PC/a victim than actually having a real conversation. Calling people names is not the way to have an adult conversation in the hopes of solving problems. Bat in the soup, probably more for sensationalizing (picture to grab attention for readers) than bias IMO.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-problem-political-correctness_b_2746663

Yeah, maybe could have picked a better picture for the article.

How can one have a conversation when people who cause the offense refuse to acknowledge their mistake? Or even further, those people like you, who refuses to look the matter in different viewpoints?

Being narrow minded isn't going to help you in the future. If you want to solve problem in adult ways, perhaps the first thing you should do is to understand why people are having issues with this article, and not attack the people who were offended by the article. By defending the OP, and refusing to take any consideration of the other viewpoint makes you look petty and uncultured.

Also, putting bat soup as an "attention grab" is despicable and revolting. The fact that people like you haven't acknowledge how offensive this may be just shows how uneducated you are in terms of cultural awareness

2 hours ago, TriciaJ said:

Yes, I think there are many valid points on which to criticize the article. The best approach would be to address the specific points of contention, especially the ones that stood out as particularly culturally insensitive. We could have all learned from that and maybe become aware of our own inherent biases. Keeping the emotion out of it would make anyone's point of view more credible, not less.

But the name-calling and rage and personal attacks smack of self-righeousness and moral superiority, which, in my opinion, are no better than blatant racism. And they do shut down any chance of a real conversation about anything.

Stop making this about yourself. Calling out someone for being uncultured in a profession like nursing is necessary nowadays because clearly, people like you have not learned about diversity and culture properly in nursing school.

Times have changed. Stop living in your ancient times.

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