My Visit to China: Could This Be A Reason Why Coronavirus Started There?

I've visited China and the wet markets where the coronavirus is believed to have started. With the conditions I saw it's not surprising that this is where the outbreak may have begun. Nurses COVID News

Updated:  

With all the talk about the coronavirus, I wanted to share my experiences visiting China. A few years ago I traveled to Beijing and Shanghai as a tourist. While the country is amazing and has some unbelievable attractions, it is also obvious that they are still a developing nation.

Common Local Food Options

The first difference that I noticed was the choice of food options. Although they have McDonald’s and KFC they also have some local dishes that many in America would not put on the menu. I saw whole fish with the fins and scales served on a plate, mammals I won’t mention, and snakes. The latter is at the center of coronavirus issue as it’s suggested that a bat was eaten by a snake who then was eaten by a person.

Open-Air Wet Markets

While eating odd foods isn’t a bad thing, Andrew Zimmern has made a career of it, how the food is prepped in China is an issue. While in Shanghai I visited what they call a “wet market.” Several websites are claiming the coronavirus, and previously SARS started in wet markets. Think of a farmer’s market but the butchering of the animals happens behind the counter and the raw meat is hung in the open air. China Street Butcher Not only are they butchering pigs, ducks and chickens there are also stands with live frogs, eels, snakes and turtles. It’s not very sanitary and there are no regulations on how they discard the entrails. One moment a man could be butchering a snake, the next he could be handling a raw piece of pork before selling it to the consumer. The market was open-air even during the summer months. Raw meat sat out in 85-degree temperatures. The worst part was the unsanitary conditions. The animal waste, including feces, wasn’t discarded away from the food. I’m honestly surprised more people don’t get sick.

Human Waste Disposal

Another issue in China is how they deal with human waste. Many of the big cities are westernized when it comes to plumbing but even in cities like Beijing and Shanghai, it is not rare to come across squat toilets. Squat toilet - China The squat toilet is just what it sounds like. In nice areas, they can be made of porcelain, like the attached picture, but in many spots, they are made of metal or wood. They are essentially a hole in the floor that you squat over to do your business. Again, the sanitation of these toilets is not great, especially if the previous user was careless with their aim. Another issue with Chinese restrooms is that in most you are not allowed to flush the toilet paper. In many areas, the plumbing isn’t capable of handling the waste paper. So what do people do with the waste paper? They place it in a garbage can or open bin. And again, the sanitation varies on whether or not the previous user cared to hit the bin with their waste paper. Even in restaurants and bars in the cities, I saw overflowing bins of used waste paper. That was in major cities like Beijing and Shanghai. The situation was worse in more rural areas.

Disease Transmission

All of these poor practices can contribute to the spread of illness. The overall attitude though is not one of cleanliness and sanitation. Washing your hands after butchering an animal or going to the restroom is not seen as necessary in many parts of the country. For China to stem the tide of illness, and prevent future issues, they really need to change public attitudes around hygiene. The coronavirus can be spread via infected secretions, fecal matter or by a cough or sneeze. China’s hygiene standards increase the odds of all those possibilities.

Images provided by the author

Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
45 minutes ago, iol54 said:

Stop making this about yourself. Calling out someone for being uncultured in a profession like nursing is necessary nowadays because clearly, people like you have not learned about diversity and culture properly in nursing school.

Times have changed. Stop living in your ancient times.

Uh huh. I'm just going to let this post speak for itself.

3 Votes
4 minutes ago, TriciaJ said:

Uh huh. I'm just going to let this post speak for itself.

ok Boomer

1 Votes
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
14 minutes ago, iol54 said:

ok Boomer

Keep going. You're on a roll. Because a remark like that isn't bigoted at all.

3 Votes
Specializes in Critical Care.
1 hour ago, iol54 said:

How can one have a conversation when people who cause the offense refuse to acknowledge their mistake? Or even further, those people like you, who refuses to look the matter in different viewpoints?

Being narrow minded isn't going to help you in the future. If you want to solve problem in adult ways, perhaps the first thing you should do is to understand why people are having issues with this article, and not attack the people who were offended by the article. By defending the OP, and refusing to take any consideration of the other viewpoint makes you look petty and uncultured.

Also, putting bat soup as an "attention grab" is despicable and revolting. The fact that people like you haven't acknowledge how offensive this may be just shows how uneducated you are in terms of cultural awareness

The OP's epidemiological fallacies have been well explained and supported, but those claiming racism/bigotry/xenophobia etc. and lack of cultural awareness have yet to offer any evidence, maybe you could explain your basis for these claims.

1 Votes
41 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

The OP's epidemiological fallacies have been well explained and supported, but those claiming racism/bigotry/xenophobia etc. and lack of cultural awareness have yet to offer any evidence, maybe you could explain your basis for these claims.

It is still unsure where the virus originated from, yet the admin put a picture of a bat soup as the main photo of the article. This whole idea of "bat soup" came from the video that was posted on youtube, and it was confirmed that the Chinese woman who was eating the soup was in Palau at that time, not Wuhan. But this admin posts an article with a falsifying picture to gain viewers and to spread misinformed rumors. If this isn't xenophobic, I don't know what is, especially when the OP even suggested that snakes are the center of the issue.

1 hour ago, TriciaJ said:

Keep going. You're on a roll. Because a remark like that isn't bigoted at all.

I already knew you would be offended because I can understand this from your viewpoint. Imagine if you did the same on other things ?

Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
1 minute ago, iol54 said:

I already knew you would be offended because I can understand this from your viewpoint. Imagine if you did the same on other things ?

So you were hoping to offend me? And it was all part of your grand plan to educate me? And teach me empathy? And you weren't trying to insult me because of my age? And after I called you on it, you didn't go away and try to think up a good reason for doing what you claim to deplore in others?

Of course! So when I become truly enlightened I will look for and see racism everywhere? And call people out on it? And call them out for all their faults because I can see the viewpoints of others? It all makes so much sense now.

3 Votes

What is really bad is that officials in China, as officials often do, didn't want to let it be known that this virus was afoot and was a serious threat to public health. It was seen as an embarrassment, something to be kept secret, thereby delaying quarantine to contain it.

Just like HIV was treated here in the US and Canada and probably elsewhere.

2 Votes
10 minutes ago, TriciaJ said:

So you were hoping to offend me? And it was all part of your grand plan to educate me? And teach me empathy? And you weren't trying to insult me because of my age? And after I called you on it, you didn't go away and try to think up a good reason for doing what you claim to deplore in others?

Of course! So when I become truly enlightened I will look for and see racism everywhere? And call people out on it? And call them out for all their faults because I can see the viewpoints of others? It all makes so much sense now.

You sound like a great person to be with, especially in nursing homes

Specializes in Critical Care.
23 minutes ago, iol54 said:

It is still unsure where the virus originated from, yet the admin put a picture of a bat soup as the main photo of the article. This whole idea of "bat soup" came from the video that was posted on youtube, and it was confirmed that the Chinese woman who was eating the soup was in Palau at that time, not Wuhan. But this admin posts an article with a falsifying picture to gain viewers and to spread misinformed rumors. If this isn't xenophobic, I don't know what is, especially when the OP even suggested that snakes are the center of the issue.

The idea that this originated in a wet market or that snakes were the intermediate hosts both appear to be false, although these initial claims were clearly not based on race but rather on bad science. And as you correctly point out, bats are eaten outside of China and not just in Palau but in most of the 'non-western' world, which would also contradict the idea that suggesting bat-eating had something to do with this was somehow specific to the Chinese race and therefore racism.

Xenophobia is the fear of something foreign that is not based on rational reason. The fear of the hygiene and sanitation practices of a wet market are clearly not irrational, there is a clear basis recognizing pathogenic risk, although it is correct that this risk is misidentified since it applies primarily to bacterial risk, not viral risk. So the perceived risk based on bacterial pathogens is incorrectly generalized to viral pathogens, but that still doesn't make it racist.

As I pointed out earlier;

On 2/13/2020 at 4:04 AM, MunoRN said:

There have been some flawed conclusions jumped to that could be explained by some degree of unreasoned thinking and justifiable but exaggerated beliefs, but I don't think it's racism or bigotry.

Xenophobia is closer; Chinese wet markets are strange to westerners, it's a marketplace where unusual things occur, it's a bizarre bazaar. But the risk perception of them isn't just explained by it being unfamiliar.

Wet markets are pathogenically high risk, but more so in terms of bacteria than viruses. Bacteria love chunks of dead and dying cells, virus not so much. It's the live animal markets that are the virus nurseries, which may often, but not always be co-housed with a wet market. While viruses are happy to wait for their next host on a piece of meat, they're not necessarily significantly more happy than on other welcoming surfaces or modes of transmission.

The riskiness of these sanitation and cross-contamination practices are common enough that it's part of the dogma of a few religions, as is the idea that snakes are always up to no good. This might be why we jumped to the conclusions that this originated in a wet market, and that a snake was the intermediate host, even though there's reasonable evidence to at least doubt both of these conclusions.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30183-5/fulltext

https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-may-not-have-originated-from-wet-market-2020-1

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00180-8

1 Votes
5 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

The idea that this originated in a wet market or that snakes were the intermediate hosts both appear to be false, although these initial claims were clearly not based on race but rather on bad science. And as you correctly point out, bats are eaten outside of China and not just in Palau but in most of the 'non-western' world, which would also contradict the idea that suggesting bat-eating had something to do with this was somehow specific to the Chinese race and therefore racism.

Xenophobia is the fear of something foreign that is not based on rational reason. The fear of the hygiene and sanitation practices of a wet market are clearly not irrational, there is a clear basis recognizing pathogenic risk, although it is correct that this risk is misidentified since it applies primarily to bacterial risk, not viral risk. So the perceived risk based on bacterial pathogens is incorrectly generalized to viral pathogens, but that still doesn't make it racist.

As I pointed out earlier;

You missed my point. The OP used a picture of a bat soup which was one of the reasons why many people around the world started bashing on Chinese people, leading to some recent tragic incidents like this:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-bullies-attack-asian-teen-los-angeles-accusing-him-of-having-coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR1uSWOeG5AulAQANobxn5oWsQARCNNXSH2RgCAyf9dVRSSWZQkLtuaQQpQ

So when you have an OP who deliberately used such falsifying picture while knowing it has zero relation to the actual virus is indeed xenophobic IMO

Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
On 2/13/2020 at 10:09 AM, Asystole RN said:

This article reeks of xenophobia and lightly veiled racism.

Coronavirus was first identified in China so the Chinese must have done something to cause it. Chinese culture is different from western culture so those differences must have caused it.

Not dissimilar to the hype that blamed HIV on homosexuals or the patently racist MSG hype around Chinese restaurants.

The fact is little is actually known about the origins of the virus, it is far too early to make any claims. OMG, you saw someone eat a whole fish with a head and scales and everything!?!?! Pretty damn common practice in Northern Michigan. "The overall attitude though is not one of cleanliness and sanitation." Based on what? This is different from who exactly? Ever been to a Broncos game?

Blaming this on Chinese culture with literally ZERO evidence is the height of xenophobia and racism.

Thank you asystole. You said it way better than I could have

This topic is now closed to further replies.