Maybe a stupid question..

Published

A male co worker was suspended possibly fired (we do not have all of the details) over sexual harassment. This was after complaints of many female co workers. Their complaints were he touched their arms or backs (above the waist) or offered massages. I don't think he meant any of this is a sexual nature I think he's just a touchy guy. No one ever said this makes me uncomfortable please stop. Instead they let it go on for months and finally decided to go to the manager. This guy wasn't a good nurse he was a new grad and still learning and making the effort to learn. I think more than anything he was trying to fit in with his female co workers and just didn't understand you can't just be going around giving back massages. We have a zero tolerance policy so we are speculating he has more than likely been fired. If no one told him this makes them uncomfortable and he wasn't making sexual advances along with these and not groping or saying offensive things along with this, is this fair? I just feel terrible for a guy who's career is potentially ruined who I don't think meant anything wrong just has a lack of professional boundaries and saw other people doing it and followed suite. Not that following suite when you are sexually harassing someone makes it ok, but since it wasn't out and out sexual harassment just touching backs and offering massages and not being told to stop and probably being terminated over which I think is just a reason to get rid of him. Thoughts on this? I'm probably not explaining good I've worked all night and am kinda tired and I'm not defending sexual harassment in any form, but I think this was just stupidity or naievity lack of experience in the professional world etc.

Specializes in NICU.
Some of my female coworkers have given other females shoulder rubs at work.

I was implying that a new male coworker offering massages to his female coworkers would be creepy.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Tele, ICU, Staff Development.

He created a hostile work environment for his colleagues by his behavior. No employer is going to allow an employee to set them up for a lawsuit.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
He created a hostile work environment for his colleagues by his behavior. No employer is going to allow an employee to set them up for a lawsuit.

Rightfully, the fact that it was already established as something that apparently did not create a "hostile work environment" when other people did it should come into play here.

If "me and my friends" like to make frequent sexual jokes in the workplace - isn't it just a little wrong to say the work environment is somehow "hostile" when the only thing that has changed is that someone not in our cool kids club tries to join in?

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Yeah,

I'm a guy in a female dominated profession & know that I have to be aware of that reality. There is no way I'm offering massages for a litany of reasons. First and foremost I have no desire at all to do this but I do think this is unprofessional conduct. We need better boundaries in nursing where we treat colleagues appropriately and not as our buddies or part of an extended family. This mistake bit him in the butt. A male nurse should never put himself in the position of being accused of sexual harassment at work. Having said that I think somebody should have talked to this guy so the situation didn't drag on and get to the point where this nurse is in serious trouble without ever having the ability to modify his behaviors.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Yeah,

I'm a guy in a female dominated profession & know that I have to be aware of that reality. There is no way I'm offering massages for a litany of reasons. First and foremost I have no desire at all to do this but I do think this is unprofessional conduct. We need better boundaries in nursing where we treat colleagues appropriately and not as our buddies or part of an extended family. This mistake bit him in the butt. A male nurse should never put himself in the position of being accused of sexual harassment at work. Having said that I think somebody should have talked to this guy so the situation didn't drag on and get to the point where this nurse is in serious trouble without ever having the ability to modify his behaviors.

Agree with Spanked that someone should have talked to him a long time ago. He was working with some vicious individuals.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Rightfully, the fact that it was already established as something that apparently did not create a "hostile work environment" when other people did it should come into play here.

If "me and my friends" like to make frequent sexual jokes in the workplace - isn't it just a little wrong to say the work environment is somehow "hostile" when the only thing that has changed is that someone not in our cool kids club tries to join in?

This is true!!! What I've seen from my years in nursing its not about what happens but who does it. If a nurse is a buddy of all the other nurses almost any conduct will be deemed acceptable and if a nurse with the right group of friends ever gets called on unacceptable behavior a zillion lame excuses will be rendered and nothing will happen to that nurse. On the other hand if a nurse is not in that group they will be considered an outsider and any excuse to criticize that nurse will be leaped on by other nurses like flies on fresh doggie-doo. In a profession that is 90%(+) women it is my advice to other male nurses that they always look at themselves as an outsider and do not trust that other nurses will back them up. Keep yourself professional and do not suffer the illusion that the pack won't turn on you. Keep you private and professional lives as separate as humanly possible if you don't want your private life to be the subject of endless discussion and dissection. Go to work and do work. Go home to your friends and the ones you love and give back rubs and kid around. Anything a guy does can and will be used against him so don't put yourself in that position.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
He created a hostile work environment for his colleagues by his behavior. No employer is going to allow an employee to set them up for a lawsuit.

Possibly. As I stated previously, doing this as the new guy, particularly in light of all of the recent sexual harassment coverage, wasn't the best way to try and fit in.

However, if this did go on for months, without complaint, someone should have said something to him long before his termination.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development.

1. Of course someone should have said something to him.

2. Of course he should realize that touching other people's bodies without their permission is a one way ticket to the door.

3. Yes, this is unfortunate and probably unfair. However, the law is what it is and there isn't an employer on the planet right now that is going to give leeway for a sexual harassment charge that could go viral.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Yeah,

I'm a guy in a female dominated profession & know that I have to be aware of that reality. There is no way I'm offering massages for a litany of reasons. First and foremost I have no desire at all to do this but I do think this is unprofessional conduct. We need better boundaries in nursing where we treat colleagues appropriately and not as our buddies or part of an extended family. This mistake bit him in the butt. A male nurse should never put himself in the position of being accused of sexual harassment at work. Having said that I think somebody should have talked to this guy so the situation didn't drag on and get to the point where this nurse is in serious trouble without ever having the ability to modify his behaviors.

I agree.

I don't give massages, tell inappropriate jokes, make any innuendos or anything that may be considered as offensive to coworkers.

I lost a job once because of a stupid joke that no harm or fowl was meant, I had said before, head heard others say before, but one person took offense to it and brought it up with management.

OP, you admit we don't have the whole story, and probably never will.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
A male co worker was suspended possibly fired (we do not have all of the details) over sexual harassment. This was after complaints of many female co workers. Their complaints were he touched their arms or backs (above the waist) or offered massages. I don't think he meant any of this is a sexual nature I think he's just a touchy guy. No one ever said this makes me uncomfortable please stop. Instead they let it go on for months and finally decided to go to the manager. This guy wasn't a good nurse he was a new grad and still learning and making the effort to learn. I think more than anything he was trying to fit in with his female co workers and just didn't understand you can't just be going around giving back massages. We have a zero tolerance policy so we are speculating he has more than likely been fired. If no one told him this makes them uncomfortable and he wasn't making sexual advances along with these and not groping or saying offensive things along with this, is this fair? I just feel terrible for a guy who's career is potentially ruined who I don't think meant anything wrong just has a lack of professional boundaries and saw other people doing it and followed suite. Not that following suite when you are sexually harassing someone makes it ok, but since it wasn't out and out sexual harassment just touching backs and offering massages and not being told to stop and probably being terminated over which I think is just a reason to get rid of him. Thoughts on this? I'm probably not explaining good I've worked all night and am kinda tired and I'm not defending sexual harassment in any form, but I think this was just stupidity or naievity lack of experience in the professional world etc.

Just reading this made me cringe. I know the type well, although I've only encountered "them" three times in my entire life. I guarantee you this has been brought to his attention before and he didn't get it. They never do. Hopefully he'll learn something from getting fired, but he'll probably just feel persecuted for being "himself".

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in PICU.

So other people, including other males and females give back massages, etc. This guy was following unit culture and no one said No, or this makes me uncomfortable. SOunds like others had it out for him. It should not matter whether the person giving or receiving the massage is male or female. Male giving male, female giving female a massage or male to female, female to male could all be deemed as inappropriate touch. If this guy saw others doing it, why is it a problem for him if no one said a single word about being uncomfortable or no.

I think if there are issues with touching or massages, it should not just be a male giving a female massage, because a female could give inappropriate touches to a female or male as well.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.
(we do not have all of the details)

To me, this is really the most critical statement in all of this. I have worked with nurses, aides, etc. who have been fired. Some have had an attendance problem, one there was rumors of diversions, others we are just not sure. The point is, even for the people with an attendance problem, there is still no official announcement that they were fired, let alone why they were fired.

The point is, there may have been more to the situation. Perhaps there were more serious, substantiated allegations. Maybe there were other issues unrelated to allegations of harassment. I can make arguments for or against his being fired based on what you provided in the OP; however, as I said, there may be other circumstances you don't know about.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion