In a former life, I was an education counselor, so from that perspective, let me set a few things straight about education and the RN.
1. Nurses, don't require a degree. For most of the time, nurses were taught in diploma schools and some still are. Most of what a nurse learns is learned on the job. All education is great, but if a nurse is really going to be "well rounded" by education, they should have a bachelor's degree in one of the liberal art subjects and then nursing school.
2. The people who are most concerned about nurses having BSNs as entry level education are the educators. No big surprise there. Most hospitals couldn't care less, because they need people liscensed by the state as registered nurses.
3. Management requires a BSN only because there are a limited number of management slots, and education is a way of legitimately weeding applicants out. My boss was an ADN and manager of a cardiac unit for about 20 years before getting her BSN. In reality, a nurse would be better served with a A.A. in business management than a BSN if they are going to be managers.
4. MDs respect nurses. They don't really care how much education a nurse has because whatever education they have is not an MD and that's all they recognize. Why? Because they're MDs; it's a different profession. RNs are just as good as MDs, because in modern health care, both are essential for patient care and treatment. Competeing with MDs for professional status based on educational qualifications is a fool's game. The MD is considered the top of the educational food chain. But why would a nurse need or want a doctorate of medicine? They are equal with doctors in the profession of helping sick people even if they only went to a diploma school.
5. Continuing education is more important than formal academic degrees. What difference does it make if someone got their MSN 20 years ago? What have they done lately? Subscribe to three nursing mags and do their CEUs and you will be on top of the game. Combine that with national certification and you really have something that shows current competency.
6. It's true: if you want to be a psychotherapist, you need a MSW or some equivalent. Why? Because there is a glut of people getting BSc degrees in psychology and sociology. Why? because they're easy degrees. If the world needed therapists as much as they needed nurses, you'd have therapy schools with AASc programs just like nursing schools. In fact, look at the military: When the Air Force needs nurses they will commission nurses with ADNs. When they don't, they require a BSN. We aren't competing with other professions; we are nurses.
7. What I am saying will always be the case, and why? Because there will always be a nursing shortage, and not because of demographics, but because nursing takes a certain kind of person, and it's hard work. There is a shortage of bedside nurses; there always will be. There is no shortage of nurse managers or executives or NPs or CRNAs, and that's good news. Because if you really want to be a nurse, you can be and you don't have to continously seek after more and more degrees. You will always have a job, and you can be a professional person with initials after your name, and all that with only a diploma.
Specializes in pedi, pedi psych,dd, school ,home health.
"As I am a BSN student currently, obviously I find much value in the BSN and I recommend to anyone able to achieve it. I'm learning so much, and it can't but help me to become a better nurse all around, no doubt about it."
Well said, tweety..i agree totally..each step i take on this journey gives me more and more insight..i am currently doing a research class, thought i would hate it, but am finding it fascinating and challenging..ditto with my policy and politics class. Education is never wasted, unless it is not used!!!
Anyone believe, for example, that those 28 class days would make an RN a better leader, a more astute consumer of research, a better critical thinker, more well rounded, a safer practitioner who obtains improved outcomes etc etc?
Maybe, maybe not. I would like to think it would improve the nurse in some fashion or another, or why bother. 28 days sounds very accellerated. If they were an accredited school there would have been an awfully lot of work inbetween those classes to go RN to BSN.
Maybe, maybe not. I would like to think it would improve the nurse in some fashion or another, or why bother. 28 days sounds very accellerated. If they were an accredited school there would have been an awfully lot of work inbetween those classes to go RN to BSN.
I don't wish to mislead here. The program is fully accredited and as I stated requires only 28 days of class attendence. But there are other required activities including off-site clinicals; It is a weekend program and it takes one year to complete.
Now of course I would expect their students to learn something that would improve their nursing knowledge base. But is it truly the most cost effective or efficient way to improve the nurse? Education in institutions of higher learning has become extremely expensive as has the cost of books.
Although there is more to the program, those class days are the only things which distinguish that program from other non university based educational opportunities. For example, I just completed a continuing education course on Hemodynamic Monitoring by correspondence; I got out of it exactly what I put into it and little more because I had no interaction/feedback from classmates or instructors. On the other hand, it was highly relevant to my practice since I selected the course on that basis and the cost was extremely reasonable.
I take issue with nursing academia when they discount as they do the value of experience and other modes of learning while offering degree programs which offer so little resembling a traditional university experience.
:) the reason i put the beating the dead horse thingie up is that this thread was started a year ago. is the op even still participating? :rotfl:
the op has 'senior member' under his/her screenname. i believe that means he/she was asked to leave (i recall another 'senior member' who is no longer on the bb). the op has not posted since 2/04- check his/her user porfile- not a happy person!!
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
the op has 'senior member' under his/her screenname. i believe that means he/she was asked to leave (i recall another 'senior member' who is no longer on the bb). the op has not posted since 2/04- check his/her user porfile- not a happy person!!
nope, senior membership does not have a thing to do with being asked to leave, but with how many posts a member has made. i was a senior member before paying for premium membership and as annoying as i can get, no one has asked me to leave.....
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
As I am a BSN student currently, obviously I find much value in the BSN and I recommend to anyone able to achieve it. I'm learning so much, and it can't but help me to become a better nurse all around, no doubt about it.
yours must be so much better than mine was. I could not stand it, all a lot of busy work, not very stimulating at all. I need, I guess, to find another program. Or perhaps another baccaluareate program altogether. I do want to pursue higher education, but not necessarily BSN.
In a former life, I was an education counselor, so from that perspective, let me set a few things straight about education and the RN.
1. Nurses, don't require a degree. For most of the time, nurses were taught in diploma schools and some still are. Most of what a nurse learns is learned on the job. All education is great, but if a nurse is really going to be "well rounded" by education, they should have a bachelor's degree in one of the liberal art subjects and then nursing school.
2. The people who are most concerned about nurses having BSNs as entry level education are the educators. No big surprise there. Most hospitals couldn't care less, because they need people liscensed by the state as registered nurses.
3. Management requires a BSN only because there are a limited number of management slots, and education is a way of legitimately weeding applicants out. My boss was an ADN and manager of a cardiac unit for about 20 years before getting her BSN. In reality, a nurse would be better served with a A.A. in business management than a BSN if they are going to be managers.
4. MDs respect nurses. They don't really care how much education a nurse has because whatever education they have is not an MD and that's all they recognize. Why? Because they're MDs; it's a different profession. RNs are just as good as MDs, because in modern health care, both are essential for patient care and treatment. Competeing with MDs for professional status based on educational qualifications is a fool's game. The MD is considered the top of the educational food chain. But why would a nurse need or want a doctorate of medicine? They are equal with doctors in the profession of helping sick people even if they only went to a diploma school.
5. Continuing education is more important than formal academic degrees. What difference does it make if someone got their MSN 20 years ago? What have they done lately? Subscribe to three nursing mags and do their CEUs and you will be on top of the game. Combine that with national certification and you really have something that shows current competency.
6. It's true: if you want to be a psychotherapist, you need a MSW or some equivalent. Why? Because there is a glut of people getting BSc degrees in psychology and sociology. Why? because they're easy degrees. If the world needed therapists as much as they needed nurses, you'd have therapy schools with AASc programs just like nursing schools. In fact, look at the military: When the Air Force needs nurses they will commission nurses with ADNs. When they don't, they require a BSN. We aren't competing with other professions; we are nurses.
7. What I am saying will always be the case, and why? Because there will always be a nursing shortage, and not because of demographics, but because nursing takes a certain kind of person, and it's hard work. There is a shortage of bedside nurses; there always will be. There is no shortage of nurse managers or executives or NPs or CRNAs, and that's good news. Because if you really want to be a nurse, you can be and you don't have to continously seek after more and more degrees. You will always have a job, and you can be a professional person with initials after your name, and all that with only a diploma.
There is a BIG SHORTAGE of CRNA's. There was one in the 80's when I started and there always has been. We cannot produce enough fast enough.
Re: the Senior Member thing... I think maybe Bonemarrowrn meant that obviously the person isn't active on the board anymore, since the Senior Member title went away after the Premium Member changes came about. ???
That said, I have a feeling the OP is long gone, otherwise we'd all have seen and read more by him over the last year!
I don't wish to mislead here. The program is fully accredited and as I stated requires only 28 days of class attendence. But there are other required activities including off-site clinicals; It is a weekend program and it takes one year to complete.
Now of course I would expect their students to learn something that would improve their nursing knowledge base. But is it truly the most cost effective or efficient way to improve the nurse? Education in institutions of higher learning has become extremely expensive as has the cost of books.
Although there is more to the program, those class days are the only things which distinguish that program from other non university based educational opportunities. For example, I just completed a continuing education course on Hemodynamic Monitoring by correspondence; I got out of it exactly what I put into it and little more because I had no interaction/feedback from classmates or instructors. On the other hand, it was highly relevant to my practice since I selected the course on that basis and the cost was extremely reasonable.
I take issue with nursing academia when they discount as they do the value of experience and other modes of learning while offering degree programs which offer so little resembling a traditional university experience.
There is a place for on-line programs and you sound like the ideal student - one who is mature and experienced enough to separate the horses from the zebras. Don't think they would be relevant to a 20 year old though.
yours must be so much better than mine was. I could not stand it, all a lot of busy work, not very stimulating at all. I need, I guess, to find another program. Or perhaps another baccaluareate program altogether. I do want to pursue higher education, but not necessarily BSN.
Deb, I'll probably be kicking and screaming and whining the entire way. Mind you I'm only at the end of my first course "Concepts in Profressional Nusring" and it was at sometimes mind numbingly boring. But it really got me thinking more about the profression and I think it's lifting me out of a rut of burnout that I've had for the last couple of years. I can't describe it very well.
But not all, of the courses are going to be applicable to my day to day activities as a med-surg nurse. I'm in chemistry and concepts now. Next semester is Statistics and Research. How this is going to help me juggle 8 patients, I'll never know. :rotfl:
But as I have said, 20 years from now do I still want to be running up and down these hallways with an 8 patient assignment in med-surg? Maybe, maybe not, at least I might have some options with the BSN out of the way.
I hope I'm not sounding defensive, because I feel no need to be defensive. Just babbling. :)
I take issue with nursing academia when they discount as they do the value of experience and other modes of learning while offering degree programs which offer so little resembling a traditional university experience.
DDRN4me
761 Posts
"As I am a BSN student currently, obviously I find much value in the BSN and I recommend to anyone able to achieve it. I'm learning so much, and it can't but help me to become a better nurse all around, no doubt about it."
Well said, tweety..i agree totally..each step i take on this journey gives me more and more insight..i am currently doing a research class, thought i would hate it, but am finding it fascinating and challenging..ditto with my policy and politics class. Education is never wasted, unless it is not used!!!