LIAR: ADN RN prompted to lie about holding a BSN... is it passable?

[kitkats4breakfs]

Honestly, I see no difference between an ADN or ASN and a BSN. I do not think going for my Bachelors will improve my nursing judgment nor will It add to my science or medical knowledge. I think a bachelor degree in nursing can improve managerial skills and give me theories that are absolutely ridiculous.

Today, I walked into a home care agency for employment. The recruiter told me she could not hire me because I did not hold a bachelor degree and it would be illegal for me to work in home care without one. I do not know what that was about, but I work in home care and that is not true.

1.

My #1 BURNING question to you is what do you think about the whole Associate vs Bachelor Degree in Nursing controversy? In actual clinical/ theoretical practice, is one better than the other?

2.

Today's incident prompted me to think: what if I simply lied about having a bachelor's degree? I mean they don't really check do they?

--------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, just wanted to say the job market in NYC isn't too bad. many agencies and small home care companies are willing to take new grads with no experience. although the agencies like to give undesirable positions psych and school nurses, it's still an opportunity.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

Sounds like, OP, the nursing director has drank the ANA koolaid. I know that a group of LPN's were brought into a meeting with a just hired DON (who had an MBA and not a bedside nurse for 15 plus years) and told that it was a "government mandate" that any nurse working in acute care had to be a BSN. Period. Ahem...thank you...whatever for your years of service--we shall show you the front door.

Already then.

Nursing directors with a business backround are coming in fast and furious to re-do just about everything for max reimbursements. If some for profit group with the money and sense to become widely known and quoted (exceptional pr) came in a said that facilities could make money on having all ancillary staff and one nurse.....that would be the new black. In order to have every administrator jump on the bandwagon, language is used like "government mandate" and other garbage.

With all this being said, they carefully check your backround. But not to be sure you are not lying about your education,but more than likely to be 100% sure you are being truthful on your experience. Because less experience means they don't have to pay you as much.

Also, be mindful that there are some small, language at the end of a lot of employment contracts that if say 1 year from now, 5 years from now you have been discovered as being paid as a BSN prepared nurse and you are found to not be, or were not at time of hire, they will make you pay the difference of each and every bit of the salary that you earned with false credentials back. Every dollar. And yes, it may be 25 cents an hour more, but add years to that and you will owe a great deal.

It is unethical to lie about what you don't have, what you didn't do. It can spoil a nursing character that you may have spent a long time gaining the trust of your coworkers, your management team....and personally, I don't want to stoop to that level of fabrication. Because it would make you no different than them. And I would think that if you are actively seeking to increase your level of education, you have more sense than that.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

There are also tons of nursing skills that only BSN prepared nurses can do because they received the extra education/experience for it.

There are no skills that "only BSN prepared nurses" are required to perform that an ADN nurse cannot. I'll grant that there are some states that do require a BSN for certain jobs such as public health and school nursing, but that's a whole different story from skills. All nurses, whether diploma, ADN, or BSN take the exact same NCLEX and hold the exact same licensure.

[Kaybee0525]

Where I work, a nurse who came to interview was found not to have a BSN, even though her resume stated she did. YES Human Resources verifies education and degrees, at any credible place of employment! The AD nurse was reported for license review, and the hospital might have pursued legal action against her because of liability if she practiced under fraudulent circumstances, but they wouldn't discuss that with the staff. Basically if my hospital said nothing, and she went and worked somewhere else who found out, my hospital could've been liable for not reporting her. Your credibility is questionable because you asked this question, and chances are you will have problems in your career if you continue to stay in the mindset of cutting corners, lying, and having no professional accountability.

As for the BSN, do a literature review in EBSCO on how advancing nurses education leads to better patient outcomes. You do not know what a BSN program offers, or the benefits of it, so you shouldn't make assumptions (showing little professionalism and immaturity). There are many reasons why new nurses of today need to have a minimum of a BSN. Comparing yourself to an AD nurse who has an entire career behind him/her that includes years of patient care experiences is also not smart.

Nursing is always advancing. Physicians, physical therapists, pharmacists, all need to have an advanced degree before they practice. Until nurses enter the profession at the same level of education, we will not get the professional courtesy we deserve because of our experience. I see nurses with 25 years in the field and an associates degree get dismissed during rounds, yet another team member (PT, OT, pharmacist) who is brand new gets listened to because of their degree. I'm not saying it's right, but nurses need to level the playing field in order to gain credibility. We can no longer ask that we are trusted, or believed to be practicing the best way. We have to prove it with advanced education and evidence based practice. I am an adjunct instructor at a BSN program, I have my MSN, and theory is a very small part of the learning objectives.

Never lie about your credentials!!!!

[RescueNinjaKy]

Although I am fully cognizant this is not another ASN versus BSN debate, I feel compelled to point out that associate degree nurses have the exact same scope of practice as baccalaureate degree nurses.

So tell me about the 'tons' of nursing skills that only BSN-prepared RNs can perform. I personally made the transition from ASN to BSN, and my scope of practice has remained unchanged. I am really dying to know about the nursing skills I can now perform due to conferral of a baccalaureate degree in nursing.

Did the poster remove their post? I couldn't find it to quote along with my response.

Anyways, I agree completely. The adn nurse and bsn nurse have the same exact scope of practice so I highly doubt that the bsn nurse has any skill sets that only they can perform. However I do feel that they are the ones that have a bigger chance to get those managerial position. The only main difference in most bsn nurses are that they've taken nursing research and leadership. The whole nursing care, skills, and safety is already taught in an adn program thus the ability and eligibility to take the nclex and get licensed.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

Did the poster remove their post? I couldn't find it to quote along with my response.

It's only part of the quoted post. On the app, clicking view original will take you to the quoted post. Clicking in the word quote in "quote from username" on the full site does the same.

[nrsang97, BSN, RN]

I can't believe the OP is even thinking about lying about her credentials.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

I can't believe the OP is even thinking about lying about her credentials.

Since this is posted in the Male Student forum, my gut feeling tells me the OP is a guy, but your point still remains salient. It's all about integrity, not dishonesty.

[cynmrn]

I can tell you right now that I have NEVER lied on a resume, job application, or anything else of that nature. There is no reason to do so, and I find it pretty disturbing that you think that this is acceptable in any fashion. Entitlement at its finest, I guess...

[scaredsilly, BSN, RN]

Although I am fully cognizant this is not another ASN versus BSN debate, I feel compelled to point out that associate degree nurses have the exact same scope of practice as baccalaureate degree nurses.

So tell me about the 'tons' of nursing skills that only BSN-prepared RNs can perform. I personally made the transition from ASN to BSN, and my scope of practice has remained unchanged. I am really dying to know about the nursing skills I can now perform due to conferral of a baccalaureate degree in nursing.

Exactly! I work with a couple of ASN nurses and they do the same things that I do. As a new nurse, I owe a couple of them for all that they taught me. The facility I work in is now mandating BSN, and these nurses are back in school-they are learning managerial and leadership skills but no new nursing skills.

I happen to think that an ASN should be enough and really don't understand why more and more jobs are BSN only, but if they are there is a reason for it and if you could just make up any degree you want, we would all have a PhD and make the big bucks!

[Angeljho, MSN, NP]

I'm currently in an RN-BSN program. Under EDUCATION: I have "RN-BSN" placed there. RN-BSN should indicate that I am a RN continuing my education.

Please take the BSN out. You have not EARNED your BSN. A nurse can only put BSN after his or her name when he or she has OBTAINED that degree. You're committing fraud.

[Angeljho, MSN, NP]

I happen to think that an ASN should be enough and really don't understand why more and more jobs are BSN only, but if they are there is a reason for it and if you could just make up any degree you want, we would all have a PhD and make the big bucks!

Wasn't there research done on this? I believe nurses who were at the BSN level performed safer care than nurses at the ADN level. I'll try to find some articles on it.

[Angeljho, MSN, NP]

Here's an interesting read.

Baccalaureate Education in Nursing and Patient Outcomes

JNurs Adm. 2013 Feb;43(2):89-94.

OBJECTIVES: The aim of this study was to examine the effects of registered nurse (RN) education by determining whether nurse-sensitive patient outcomes were better in hospitals with a higher proportion of RNs with baccalaureate degrees.

BACKGROUND: The Future of Nursing report recommends increasing the percentage of RNs with baccalaureate degrees from 50% to 80%by 2020. Research has linked RN education levels to hospital mortality rates but not with other nurse-sensitive outcomes.

METHODS: This was a cross-sectional study that, with the use of data from 21 University Health System Consortium hospitals, analyzed the association between RN education and patient outcomes (risk-adjusted patient safety and quality of care indicators), controlling for nurse staffing and hospital characteristics.

RESULTS: Hospitals with a higher percentage of RNs with baccalaureate or higher degrees had lower congestive heart failure mortality, decubitus ulcers, failure to rescue, and postoperative deep vein thrombosis or pulmonary embolism and shorter length of stay.

CONCLUSION: The recommendation of the Future of Nursing report to increase RN education levels is supported by these findings.