Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

[jive turkey]

For those of you who have recognized your employer can terminate you for not taking the COVID vaccine and have decided on or are considering employment elsewhere please share your experiences here. How do you feel about having to make that choice? 

The purpose of this thread is not to condemn those making this decision or debate whether they should vaccinate or not. 

[BostonFNP, APRN]

12 hours ago, cinlou said:

I went through many different diseases throughout my nursing career such as AIDS, H1N1, SARS and not once did we shut down the world, even though there were always the high risk individuals with comorbidities.

There are some distinctions here:

AIDS was not a respiratory virus and at it's peak was killing 45,000 people a year (in the US) and people were really scared; COVID is killing 600,000 a year (in the US).

Infectious respiratory virus H1N1 resulted in 60 million cases and 12,500 deaths. COVID has killed more than 50 times that with just over half the cases. 

Infectious respiratory virus SARS infected 8,000 people worldwide and only 774 deaths worldwide. 

We didn't even shut down when ebola hit the US.

Ebola: 11 cases in the US and 2 deaths. Public was clamoring for a vaccine. 

 (What is the total death rate of people with MI, car accidents etc. that are hospitalized and also happen to test positive for Covid? What did they die from?) 

People that die from MVAs and happen to be COVID positive don't have COVID on their death certificates. People that have MIs may well have it on their death certificates as it has been demonstrated that people with COVID has longer ischemic times, longer hospital stays, more severe disease. 

For COVID to be listed on a death certificate, it needs to be directly related to the cause of death. 

 

 

[jive turkey]

2 hours ago, BostonFNP said:

 

In comparing death tolls, how many deaths have to occur before one communicable disease is considered important enough to justify a certain course of action different from other?

Why do people use the respiratory aspect to justify why death from this disease is worthy of special treatment different from others that kill in the 100s of thousands?

I comprehend you can't coughing sneeze HIV and heart disease on somebody.  There many things that kill people in large numbers and yet society seems to accept that and not make mandates and curfews to curb deaths from those diseases. 

 Before you get upset what I'm really trying to ask is why don't we combat all diseases to the same scale as we do Corona ? Did not enough people die?

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

Before you get upset what I'm really trying to ask is why don't we combat all diseases to the same scale as we do Corona ? Did not enough people die?

Maybe because this particular virus is novel and the disease can be remarkably severe? We have fought a number of epidemics with new vaccine development.  These vaccines are measurably more safe and more effective at preventing illness or death from disease than were the first polio vaccines. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

On 8/20/2021 at 10:00 PM, litepath2 said:

OP,

I went thru this back in '09 with H1N1 and was none to happy about it. I admit I was blissfully unaware the H1N1 was such a big deal. I had taken care of at least one 3rd term-preggo gal and had worried about her and the child too, but as in SARS 03, and other things-ICU, I never gave myself much thought.

So, I took their vax and left in my own time 4 Months later never to return. That vax was easier to swallow simply due to it's being in the foundational foot print of the flu vax. This mRNA tech is too new for many folks. Me included. It has somewhere between no track record and/or a poor one.

It wasn't the vax that bothered me then. l It was having to make such a choice. 

 

 

 

Please.  What evidence do you have of the poor track record for RNA?  It has been around for 20 years.

[anewsns]

Same thread, different title. 

[litepath2]

12 hours ago, subee said:

Please.  What evidence do you have of the poor track record for RNA?  It has been around for 20 years.

I said, what I said. You have evidence in support of your argument?

https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/

Lack of publishing papers could be another reason they don't inspire confidence: https://www.nature.com/articles/nbt.3488

Lack of transparency hasn't helped: https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n627

By Definition, these COVID vaccines are failed vaccines.

Have a Great Day!

[SmilingBluEyes]

On 8/22/2021 at 12:32 AM, I Am ReadyRN said:

I agree, it is refreshing to hear a neutral response on here that is covid vaccine related. I'm vaccinated myself, but I've also been on both sides. 

Honestly all the negativity, bullying and judgmental comments on this topic I'm seeing on AllNurses is disheartening and sickening.

Please point out the bullying. I don't see it.

13 hours ago, anewsns said:

Same thread, different title. 

Yep.

[emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B]

17 minutes ago, litepath2 said:

I said, what I said. You have evidence in support of your argument?

https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/

Lack of publishing papers could be another reason they don't inspire confidence: https://www.nature.com/articles/nbt.3488

Lack of transparency hasn't helped: https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n627

By Definition, these COVID vaccines are failed vaccines.

Have a Great Day!

1st article is from 2017 and not sure how it translates to the covid vaccine as it appears the issues have been resolved. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41578-021-00358-0?error=cookies_not_supported&code=4563ad13-55fb-469e-ba31-17f7f41f6984

2nd article is from 2016. So you’re saying there’s not enough research & publication on covid vaccines? Back to the future here?

3rd article.  OK, you found an article critical of the mrna technology. but if you peruse that article, you’ll notice that their argument is not verifiable. Just sayin’…

 

 

[KathyDay]

42 minutes ago, litepath2 said:

By Definition, these COVID vaccines are failed vaccines.

WHAT?

Then, how do you explain that over 957% of all hospitalized COVID patients in Maine are the unvaccinated.  Vaccinated people do have breakthrough cases, but generally those cases do not land them in the hospital and/or they don't kill them.  This vaccine is a success, and would be MORE of a success if anti vaxxers would get on board.  We have a Maine representative whose wife died of COVID on Aug 11 and HE had it too.  He is still marching with demonstrators against mandates.  What does it take to wake these people up.....obviously death isn't serious enough????  I am beginning to think that nothing will wake them up, but they are dying off unfortunately.  The saddest thing of all is that they are a threat to your youth, who cannot be vaccinated yet....and that is unforgivable.

[anewsns]

The big picture: This virus is causing us to run out of ICU beds, and it is very communicable unlike some of these other problems like obesity or diabetes. You don't spread heart attacks to everyone around you. Other people don't want to be denied health services because people are unvaccinated and also not being careful in any other way. A lot of people refuse to be vaccinated, attend large events, don't social distance, and don't even wear a mask. It's not individual antivaxxers. It's a large portion of society preventing another large portion of society to suffer. If a person is vaccinated, they may not be hospitalized from covid but our lives continue to be abnormal due to all the recklessness happening out there. I don't care if people don't do anything to prevent their own death. I cant care about you more than you care about yourself. I don't care if people take their own individual risk. I wouldnt care if all the people who don't care were just clumped in one area together with their own hospitals.   I care that people think its OK to take their own individual risk at the cost of all of society breaking down and crashing. Covid is not quite airborne like TB, but the particles are still quite small. If we don't allow people to walk around society with known TB, why are we allowing that for covid. The more annoying thing is ALL OF THIS IS COMMON SENSE. Going back to normal would not be that hard, if people truly wanted things to return to normal. To make this relate more to the thread, it is common sense that hospitals want unvaccinated nurses to stay out of close contact with unvaccinated patients. (There is a statistically high likelihood of working with those patients.) Its just a setup for an outbreak and regardless of whether people take a risk and may die from their own choices, it is still going to continue to severely burden everyone else. If you are unvaccinated, believe the virus even exists, and want life to go back to normal, stay home and work from home instead of staying all up in patients faces. 

[anewsns]

In a theoretical world, unvaccinated people could have their own unvaccinated country with their own insurance or medicaid and own hospitals. Because if you yourself are unvaccinated, it is OK if nobody around you is vaccinated, right? 

[anewsns]

"Rights, then, play a central role in ethics. Attention to rights ensures that the freedom and well-being of each individual will be protected when others threaten that freedom or well-being. If an individual has a moral right, then it is morally wrong to interfere with that right even if large numbers of people would benefit from such interference.

But rights should not be the sole consideration in ethical decision-making. In some instances, the social costs or the injustice that would result from respecting a right are too great, and accordingly, that right may need to be limited. Moreover, an emphasis on rights tends to limit our vision of what the "moral life" entails. Morality, it's often argued, is not just a matter of not interfering with the rights of others. Relying exclusively on a rights approach to ethics tends to emphasize the individual at the expense of the community. And, while morality does call on us to respect the uniqueness, dignity, and autonomy of each individual, it also invites us to recognize our relatedness—that sense of community, shared values, and the common good which lends itself to an ethics of care, compassion, and concern for others."

.https://www.scu.edu/ethics/ethics-resources/ethical-decision-making/rights/