Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

[jive turkey]

For those of you who have recognized your employer can terminate you for not taking the COVID vaccine and have decided on or are considering employment elsewhere please share your experiences here. How do you feel about having to make that choice? 

The purpose of this thread is not to condemn those making this decision or debate whether they should vaccinate or not. 

[jive turkey]

7 minutes ago, londonflo said:

Some of you never had to write a paper backed by credible sources and peer-reviewed research...
and it absolutely shows.

That didn't contribute anything to this discussion.

People aren't writing college papers here, and if you reference anything in APA format one of the moderators converts it to a link anyway.  

Would you like to cite sources regarding a particular perspective?

[toomuchbaloney]

6 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

That didn't contribute anything to this discussion.

People aren't writing college papers here, and if you reference anything in APA format one of the moderators converts it to a link anyway.  

Would you like to cite sources regarding a particular perspective?

That didn't contribute anything to the discussion.  People aren't writing papers here but some of them are demonstrating that they don't have the skill set to properly research and argue a point.

Would you like to cite sources regarding a particular perspective...like maybe a source that supports the idea of health care workers remaining unvaccinated during a public health emergency with a VPD without medical contraindication or sound reason not to vaccinate?

[londonflo]

6 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

People aren't writing college papers here, and if you reference anything in APA format one of the moderators converts it to a link anyway.  

Go ahead and deflect from the point of the comment...Nothing was said about APA! Nothing was said about the moderators! Boy you sure side track a lot, Jive Talking.  The reality of the comment was:

opinions, facts, statistics backed by credible sources and peer-reviewed research which doesn't seem to be in your wheelhouse. 

 

 

[jive turkey]

9 minutes ago, londonflo said:

Go ahead and deflect from the point of the comment...Nothing was said about APA! Nothing was said about the moderators! Boy you sure side track a lot, Jive Talking.  The reality of the comment was:

opinions, facts, statistics backed by credible sources and peer-reviewed research which doesn't seem to be in your wheelhouse. 

 

 

Your post had zero value to it.  You're lashing out for being called out on it.  I've referenced the CDC and scholarly studies in this thread to support opinions.  Go find one source I posted that wasn't a credible source.  Bet cha can't?.  

You're deflecting by making this a personal argument.  Do you have a perspective YOU would like to share with credible sources or talk about wheelhouses?

 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

1 hour ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

I updated my post. I don't reserve blame  from the red team. I see you don't reserve blame from the blue team. In that we are agreed. But the media is biased. And the population gets their news from the media. My olqver riding point is, we can't keep pushing the blame game. It's not sturgis. It's not Obama party. It's all the abovep. 

Everyone was tested for the Obama party which turned out to be a much smaller affair.  The source of the Martha's Vineyard cases was traced to a restaurant worker.  It was a really dumb idea but not a spreader.  I guess hubris comes closely behind new wealth.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

37 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

That didn't contribute anything to this discussion.

People aren't writing college papers here, and if you reference anything in APA format one of the moderators converts it to a link anyway.  

Would you like to cite sources regarding a particular perspective?

Well, yes, she did.  We are here to debate.  Debating requires meticulous attention to sources and we have seen some doozies here including way too much emotion.  Stop with the hyperbolic term paper crap.  If people can't make a logical argument based on facts, why even bother having this thread. 

[anewsns]

19 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

OK. Let me lay this out. Covid unit. Terrible. Sad. All the pts on this unit have diagnosis. Confirmed. Can they get "worse covid"? No. Sure if unvaccinated nurses get floated from covid units to non covid units, sure that is a concern. But from my knowledge, those on a covid unit stay on the covid unit. No? What difference does it make if the nurse is vaccinated? They can't spread it to the covid pts. So. How bout non covid pts? How bout all NON covid units staffed with vaccinated nurse? That would make sense. And the hospital could retain it's staff without mandates. I have not heard this idea discussed literally anywhere. All I hear is GET VACCINATED! PERIOD!" It's never specific to anything. 

I half agree. I almost said it earlier myself. It would be even better if they had specialized covid hospitals. I am all for the vaccination because it IS your favorite words. Safe and effective. BUT if we must move forward this way, it could potentially pull a lot of covid patients out of other ICUs and we wouldnt worsen the nursing shortage. I didn't end up posting this earlier because I could see a few pitfalls. Nurse antivaxxers who are so adamantly against vaccines and don't make ANY other attempt to prevent the spread may give harmful advice to patients and families. Also, those nurses would need to be tested at least once a week. And then you cant force them to stay home or wear masks because freedom. Staffing would also be labile since part of the staff would be out of work with covid all the time. It would solve some problems but worsen others. 

[SmilingBluEyes]

https://www.fsmb.org/advocacy/news-releases/fsmb-spreading-covid-19-vaccine-misinformation-may-put-medical-license-at-risk/?fbclid=IwAR3TK_ymsi2kMkyRiv1FoKkr6L-FsRoDk_3YvQkTvhx8nkyZJ4V0_YdVnyc

FSMB: SPREADING COVID-19 VACCINE MISINFORMATION MAY PUT MEDICAL LICENSE AT RISK

 A reason to be really careful with misinformation. One may lose his or her license for spreading it, to include social media.

[10GaugeNeedles, BSN]

Given this is still a new drug, I've been looking for suggestions on possible links to auto immunity meditated by covid vaccines. Seen a number of letters to the editor with some proposed mechanisms. The thing that stood out to me on this one was the suggestion that it's possibly more likely in those with pre existing auto immune disorders. To me that would explain the existence of reports of serious auto immune type side effects while at the same time these reports appear to be rare. It suggests there me not be a wide spread risk of new auto immune development but only exacerbation of a pre-existing condition. I hope there's studies in the future to answer the question:

"In order to avoid degradation by RNases, RNA can be encapsulated in nanoparticles or liposomes, which deliver the cargo inside target cells following a process of endocytosis. mRNA is then translated into immunogenic proteins by cell ribosomal machinery [6].

PROPOSED MECHANISMS:

However, prior to the translation, mRNA may bind pattern recognition receptors (PRRs) in endosomes or cytosol. Toll-like receptor (TLR)3, TLR7 and TLR8 are able to recognize chains of double-stranded (ds)RNA or single-stranded (ss)RNA in endosomes, while retinoic acid-inducible gene-I (RIG-I) and melanoma differentiation-associated protein 5 (MDA5) may detect short and long filaments of dsRNA in the cytosol. The final result is the activation of several pro-inflammatory cascades, including the assembly of inflammasome platforms, the type I interferon (IFN) response and the nuclear translocation of the transcription factor nuclear factor (NF)-kB [7].

Importantly, the up-regulation of these immunological pathways is widely considered to be at the basis of several immune-mediated diseases, especially in GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED SUBJECTS....[all caps added by me... It may by a good thing to study those with preexisting disorders to see if they experience negative side effects as we mass vaccinate. Are they being studied right now?]

...who have an impaired clearance of nucleic acids [8]. This could particularly hold true in young female individuals, due to the over-expression of X-linked genes presiding over the antiviral response and the stimulatory effect played by estrogens on the immune system. The X chromosome hosts several genes involved in the immune response, including TLR7 and TLR8 genes, and about 10% of microRNAs indirectly controlling the activation of the immune system [9].

THE FOLLOWING STOOD OUT TO ME AS A POSSIBLE POPULATION TO EXCLUDE FROM VACCINATION WITH MRNA VACCINES OR AT LEAST A POPULATION WE SHOULD MONITOR SEPARATELY

Therefore, young and female patients who are already affected or predisposed (e.g. immunological and serological abnormalities in absence of clinical symptoms, familiarity for immune-mediated diseases) to autoimmune or autoinflammatory disorders should be carefully evaluated for the benefits and risks of COVID-19 mRNA vaccination.

 

According to epidemiological data, these subjects may develop the infection asymptomatically or pauci-symptomatically and it is worth noting that, in line with the article of Vojdani et al. [1], the presence of autoreactive cells and autoantibodies cross-reacting against SARS-CoV-2 epitopes may even turn naturally protective towards the infection. Until proven otherwise, the administration of a nucleic acid vaccine may instead put these individuals at risk of unwanted immunological side effects by either sensitizing the PRRs or generating cross-reactive cell clones and antibodies. Moreover, COVID-19 mRNA vaccine might differently stimulate myeloid or plasmacytoid dendritic cells (DCs), generating an unbalance in the downstream cytokine pathways that play a crucial role in autoimmunity and autoinflammation [3]."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7833091/?report=reader

 

[mdOldie]

5 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7833091/?report=reader

 

Thanks for sharing that article.  That is exactly my situation (genetic susceptibility to an immune-mediated disease) and that is why I was fortunate enough to find a doctor who would write a medical exemption for me, because, as has been mentioned, it's not a good time in this country for doctor's who don't follow the commonly held beliefs even though there may be scientific support for alternative viewpoints.  Debate is not encouraged and actively censored at this time in the name of misinformation.  

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

AN has always encouraged debate using reputable, reliable and scientific sources when posting links.   Misinformation posted will be removed by Admin staff per Terms of Service.

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Back to the topic

With FDA approval of first COVID-19 vaccine, let the mandates begin: US military, Disney World, CVS Health and more

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...There had been legal protection for mandates before the full approval was issued. In July, the Department of Justice saidemergency authorization didn't prohibit employers from requiring COVID-19 vaccines.

That didn't stop legal challenges and state legislative discussions, but the FDA's official license makes those arguments moot. 

"Now that the change has been made, I expect we will see new requirements trickling in over the next few weeks," Diamond said.

The largest so far came hours after the FDA announcement from the U.S. military, which said it would require vaccination against COVID-19 for all service members.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/24/covid-vaccination-mandates-multiply-after-fda-full-approval-vaccine/8249713002/

NPR 8/12/21

The Legality Of COVID Vaccine Mandates For Employees ...

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Is there a legal precedent for requiring vaccination?

There is, Jacobson v. Massachusetts, [a Supreme Court case from 1905]. The case itself was about a vaccination mandate for smallpox...

 

[toomuchbaloney]

Autoimmunity as the comet tail of COVID-19 pandemic

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Thanks to growing awareness among physicians who are treating COVID-19 patients, the number of reports describing atypical forms of COVID-19, involving skin, heart and skeletal muscles, blood cells, central and peripheral nervous system and vessels, has dramatically increased in the last months[12-18]. Similarly, an association between COVID-19 and thrombotic events, along with detection of anti-phospholipid (aPL) antibodies, has also been reported[19]. Whether these manifestations are transitory epiphenomena following viral infection or mirror the onset of a definite autoimmune disease is not understood.

Quote

Given the complex immunologic scenario underlying SARS-CoV-2 infection, the aim of this opinion review is to summarize the evidence linking autoimmunity to COVID-19 and to provide an insight on the pathophysiologic mechanisms which may predispose infected people to autoimmunity.

This esteemed doctor notes that actual infection carries the risk of autoimmunity.  There are so many risks associated directly with remaining unvaccinated without medical contraindication. 

Publishing this article and the letter to the editor regarding autoimmunity and vaccination are evidence that debate and discussion is alive and well.  The conspiracy that credible voices are being silenced is silly.