mdOldie

About 20% of PCR tests are false negative even when viral counts are at their highest. Here's the study. https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1495

Source for this "fact" please? If it's the AMA, what % of physicians currently belong to the AMA? What about DOs? I know many physicians who have chosen NOT to get vaccinated. Seems like this forum pretty much represents the overall feelings of the professions though.

Haven't researched it at all.

I thought that natural immunity being better had been the prevailing science until the COVID vaccine, but maybe I was wrong. I don't think you said it. One of the studies I posted showed natural immunity was better for delta. And I agree with you about the media and official sources pretending like natural immunity doesn't exist.

Everything you wrote makes a lot of sense. You raise a good point about high infection risk. You are worried about getting it, given you aren't high morbidity? What happened to natural immunity being better than vaccine induced immunity?

The way I read it is that the patient had developed immunogenicity through the vaccine - as "nucleocapsid IgG/IgM was not elicited" so it doesn't sound like he had been previously infected. And yes, I agree, it doesn't say spike protein was found but viral RNA. So how did that viral RNA get into all his organs? Was it from spike protein getting into the organs? Or was it from contracting COVID from the patient in the room with him? I agree, that the published data supports reduction of severity in symptoms. But, would this man have even been in there if he hadn't had the vaccine? Was his death indirectly as a result of the vaccine? It seems to me it could as easily go that way as the other way, just like the numerous deaths in people with underlying conditions that the actual cause of death could have been the underlying condition. What makes you think it was a COVID infection not bacterial pneumonia as the authors conclude? I'm no expert on any of this, I just try to read and analyze and think. Especially when the words "safe and effective" are thrown around, and the usually safety studies were not done, adequate time has not passed, some people are making a lot of money, and multiple reputable individuals are raising questions and self-reported adverse effects and deaths are high and I have a responsibility to do no harm. How many pharmaceuticals have been approved through the normal protocol and then later taken off the market due to adverse events? Part of me is worried about the future of the world. Here's another interesting article which states in its discussion - "Nonetheless, evidence of systemic detection of spike and S1 protein production from the mRNA-1273 vaccine is significant and has not yet been described in any vaccine study, likely due to limitations in assay sensitivity and timing assessment. The clinical relevance of this finding is unknown and should be further explored. These data show that S1 antigen production after the initial vaccination can be detected by day 1 and is present beyond the site of injection and the associated regional lymph nodes." https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab465/6279075# My understanding was that the vaccine was designed only to express membrane-anchored antigen.

Hi 10g, I love the detailed scientific analysis and sharing of peer-reviewed publications that you have done with this topic. I'm curious what you found that lead you to believe that there's no continued spike protein production. I heard that it didn't stop. Did you see this publication about the autopsy that showed that the spike protein was found it in multiple organs in a vaccinated individual? Of course, this individual didn't live that long, but definitely something of note. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8051011/?report=reader I'm also attaching another article you may find interesting. MRA_FINAL_6_14_21_Treatable metabolic and inflammatory abnormalities in Post COVID.pdf

Thanks for sharing that article. That is exactly my situation (genetic susceptibility to an immune-mediated disease) and that is why I was fortunate enough to find a doctor who would write a medical exemption for me, because, as has been mentioned, it's not a good time in this country for doctor's who don't follow the commonly held beliefs even though there may be scientific support for alternative viewpoints. Debate is not encouraged and actively censored at this time in the name of misinformation.

Sorry, what I meant to say was the vaccines don't provide immunity. Now they are having waning efficacy - one of those studies was the precurser to the preprint one I shared with the waning efficacy. Another preprint article, large study out of Israel, documents that natural immunity is better than vaccine induced immunity for Delta. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf So why force those who have had it to get vaccinated? And if vaccination primarily protects those who get it, then why mandate it for those who make different choices for themselves? Does vaccination really stop the spread or does staying home when you have symptoms stop the spread? Hand hygiene, PPE etc. With data coming in that vaccinated people are spreading it and the huge increase in breakthrough cases it doesn't seem like vaccination is effective on that front.

How much have you studied the COVID vaccines? Show me in the peer-reviewed literature where it states that the COVID vaccines "stimulate the immune system to produce immune responses that protect against infection."

Sorry, my mistake. The point is that the vaccine in and of itself is not effective. This was in fully vaccinated healthcare workers - breakthrough cases. 251 times the viral load as the old strain. So vaccinated healthcare workers are likely spreading COVID just as much as unvaccinated. According to the FDA, https://www.fda.gov/media/139638/download a vaccine needs to have a 50% efficacy to be approved. This preprint article puts Pfizer now at 42%https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf For those of you who state the vaccines are safe, take a hard look at the data and compare what there is with other drug trials for drugs that have been brought to market. Do you see those long term placebo controlled trials for safety? And sure VAERS is user reported, but don't you find these numbers compelling? And aren't we taught to listen to our patients? https://www.ronjohnson.senate.gov/services/files/A4A76F9A-9B29-4CF9-B987-F9097A3F4CB7

Good point about Ah yes, and here's a preprint study from the Lancet (still undergoing peer review) that shows viral load in fully vaccinated is 251 times higher than unvaccinated. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733

Effectiveness of vaccine is waning with the prevalence of the Delta variant. It is now estimated at 66%. From the latest CDC report During December 14, 2020–August 14, 2021, full vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines was 80% effective in preventing RT-PCR–confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection among frontline workers, further affirming the highly protective benefit of full vaccination up to and through the most recent Summer U.S. COVID-19 pandemic waves. The VE point estimates declined from 91% before predominance of the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant to 66% since the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant became predominant at the HEROES-RECOVER cohort study sites; however, this trend should be interpreted with caution because VE might also be declining as time since vaccination increases and because of poor precision in estimates due to limited number of weeks of observation and few infections among participants. As with all observational VE studies, unmeasured and residual confounding might be present. Active surveillance through the cohort is ongoing and VE estimates will be monitored continuously. https://www.CDC.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e4.htm?s_cid=mm7034e4_w This is based on the weeks where Delta was greater than 50% of the cases. Delta is now estimated at 98% of cases. It looks like, as predicted by some, that efficacy is waning. I am a nursing student, with a medical exemption for the vaccine, just praying I make it through school. I am often afraid of sharing my perspective because so many people express some of the views in this thread. Fortunately, I don't plan to work in any of these institutions when I am done so I just need to make it through school.

There's a private facebook group that you can join with all cohorts in it. Brandman ABSN Students. If you browse through this thread I think you will find a positive report from someone in one of the earlier cohorts as well a big discussion from me about costs . . . I personally was impressed with my orientation, and the responsiveness of the admin. All I've taken is the required Liberal Arts classes which, despite wishing I didn't have to do them as I already was a skilled writer etc., I thought were well done. Maybe my teachers were more suited to me. I'm in cohort 4, starting core nursing in a month.

Congratulations everyone! I'm in Cohort 4. There is a private Brandman ABSN Students facebook group for all Cohorts. @Penner23 I'm in Mission Beach! Please be patient with admin - they tend to be super busy. There are only a few of them. Things may be simpler for them now though. Prior to your cohort, you could get in without all prereqs complete. But your still have to take the LBSU classes. I haven't heard any reports from those in clinicals yet, been too busy to check. Despite all the issues with getting my prereqs accepted for transfer I'm really happy with the choice and it seems like it's going to be a great program.