mdOldie

About 20% of PCR tests are false negative even when viral counts are at their highest. Here's the study. https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1495

Source for this "fact" please? If it's the AMA, what % of physicians currently belong to the AMA? What about DOs? I know many physicians who have chosen NOT to get vaccinated. Seems like this forum pretty much represents the overall feelings of the professions though.

Haven't researched it at all.

I thought that natural immunity being better had been the prevailing science until the COVID vaccine, but maybe I was wrong. I don't think you said it. One of the studies I posted showed natural immunity was better for delta. And I agree with you about the media and official sources pretending like natural immunity doesn't exist.

Everything you wrote makes a lot of sense. You raise a good point about high infection risk. You are worried about getting it, given you aren't high morbidity? What happened to natural immunity being better than vaccine induced immunity?

The way I read it is that the patient had developed immunogenicity through the vaccine - as "nucleocapsid IgG/IgM was not elicited" so it doesn't sound like he had been previously infected. And yes, I agree, it doesn't say spike protein was found but viral RNA. So how did that viral RNA get into all his organs? Was it from spike protein getting into the organs? Or was it from contracting COVID from the patient in the room with him? I agree, that the published data supports reduction of severity in symptoms. But, would this man have even been in there if he hadn't had the vaccine? Was his death indirectly as a result of the vaccine? It seems to me it could as easily go that way as the other way, just like the numerous deaths in people with underlying conditions that the actual cause of death could have been the underlying condition. What makes you think it was a COVID infection not bacterial pneumonia as the authors conclude? I'm no expert on any of this, I just try to read and analyze and think. Especially when the words "safe and effective" are thrown around, and the usually safety studies were not done, adequate time has not passed, some people are making a lot of money, and multiple reputable individuals are raising questions and self-reported adverse effects and deaths are high and I have a responsibility to do no harm. How many pharmaceuticals have been approved through the normal protocol and then later taken off the market due to adverse events? Part of me is worried about the future of the world. Here's another interesting article which states in its discussion - "Nonetheless, evidence of systemic detection of spike and S1 protein production from the mRNA-1273 vaccine is significant and has not yet been described in any vaccine study, likely due to limitations in assay sensitivity and timing assessment. The clinical relevance of this finding is unknown and should be further explored. These data show that S1 antigen production after the initial vaccination can be detected by day 1 and is present beyond the site of injection and the associated regional lymph nodes." https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab465/6279075# My understanding was that the vaccine was designed only to express membrane-anchored antigen.

Hi 10g, I love the detailed scientific analysis and sharing of peer-reviewed publications that you have done with this topic. I'm curious what you found that lead you to believe that there's no continued spike protein production. I heard that it didn't stop. Did you see this publication about the autopsy that showed that the spike protein was found it in multiple organs in a vaccinated individual? Of course, this individual didn't live that long, but definitely something of note. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8051011/?report=reader I'm also attaching another article you may find interesting. MRA_FINAL_6_14_21_Treatable metabolic and inflammatory abnormalities in Post COVID.pdf

Thanks for sharing that article. That is exactly my situation (genetic susceptibility to an immune-mediated disease) and that is why I was fortunate enough to find a doctor who would write a medical exemption for me, because, as has been mentioned, it's not a good time in this country for doctor's who don't follow the commonly held beliefs even though there may be scientific support for alternative viewpoints. Debate is not encouraged and actively censored at this time in the name of misinformation.

Sorry, what I meant to say was the vaccines don't provide immunity. Now they are having waning efficacy - one of those studies was the precurser to the preprint one I shared with the waning efficacy. Another preprint article, large study out of Israel, documents that natural immunity is better than vaccine induced immunity for Delta. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full.pdf So why force those who have had it to get vaccinated? And if vaccination primarily protects those who get it, then why mandate it for those who make different choices for themselves? Does vaccination really stop the spread or does staying home when you have symptoms stop the spread? Hand hygiene, PPE etc. With data coming in that vaccinated people are spreading it and the huge increase in breakthrough cases it doesn't seem like vaccination is effective on that front.

How much have you studied the COVID vaccines? Show me in the peer-reviewed literature where it states that the COVID vaccines "stimulate the immune system to produce immune responses that protect against infection."

Sorry, my mistake. The point is that the vaccine in and of itself is not effective. This was in fully vaccinated healthcare workers - breakthrough cases. 251 times the viral load as the old strain. So vaccinated healthcare workers are likely spreading COVID just as much as unvaccinated. According to the FDA, https://www.fda.gov/media/139638/download a vaccine needs to have a 50% efficacy to be approved. This preprint article puts Pfizer now at 42%https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.06.21261707v1.full.pdf For those of you who state the vaccines are safe, take a hard look at the data and compare what there is with other drug trials for drugs that have been brought to market. Do you see those long term placebo controlled trials for safety? And sure VAERS is user reported, but don't you find these numbers compelling? And aren't we taught to listen to our patients? https://www.ronjohnson.senate.gov/services/files/A4A76F9A-9B29-4CF9-B987-F9097A3F4CB7

Good point about Ah yes, and here's a preprint study from the Lancet (still undergoing peer review) that shows viral load in fully vaccinated is 251 times higher than unvaccinated. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733

Effectiveness of vaccine is waning with the prevalence of the Delta variant. It is now estimated at 66%. From the latest CDC report During December 14, 2020–August 14, 2021, full vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines was 80% effective in preventing RT-PCR–confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection among frontline workers, further affirming the highly protective benefit of full vaccination up to and through the most recent Summer U.S. COVID-19 pandemic waves. The VE point estimates declined from 91% before predominance of the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant to 66% since the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant became predominant at the HEROES-RECOVER cohort study sites; however, this trend should be interpreted with caution because VE might also be declining as time since vaccination increases and because of poor precision in estimates due to limited number of weeks of observation and few infections among participants. As with all observational VE studies, unmeasured and residual confounding might be present. Active surveillance through the cohort is ongoing and VE estimates will be monitored continuously. https://www.CDC.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e4.htm?s_cid=mm7034e4_w This is based on the weeks where Delta was greater than 50% of the cases. Delta is now estimated at 98% of cases. It looks like, as predicted by some, that efficacy is waning. I am a nursing student, with a medical exemption for the vaccine, just praying I make it through school. I am often afraid of sharing my perspective because so many people express some of the views in this thread. Fortunately, I don't plan to work in any of these institutions when I am done so I just need to make it through school.

There's a private facebook group that you can join with all cohorts in it. Brandman ABSN Students. If you browse through this thread I think you will find a positive report from someone in one of the earlier cohorts as well a big discussion from me about costs . . . I personally was impressed with my orientation, and the responsiveness of the admin. All I've taken is the required Liberal Arts classes which, despite wishing I didn't have to do them as I already was a skilled writer etc., I thought were well done. Maybe my teachers were more suited to me. I'm in cohort 4, starting core nursing in a month.

Congratulations everyone! I'm in Cohort 4. There is a private Brandman ABSN Students facebook group for all Cohorts. @Penner23 I'm in Mission Beach! Please be patient with admin - they tend to be super busy. There are only a few of them. Things may be simpler for them now though. Prior to your cohort, you could get in without all prereqs complete. But your still have to take the LBSU classes. I haven't heard any reports from those in clinicals yet, been too busy to check. Despite all the issues with getting my prereqs accepted for transfer I'm really happy with the choice and it seems like it's going to be a great program.

Thanks so much for the update! Good to know what I'm in for this fall since communication has been somewhat lacking - as you say - "they take a bit of time and patience to get everything done." Also for the clarification of the $250 "raise in tuition" due to tech fee. I hadn't seen that before. That's only on the class hours, not the clinicals, right? I asked financial aid but never got an answer.

Hi everyone, It's a bit nuts. It happened, to me, I was told the same thing Summer admission period. Then I got in (no change in application). In the meantime I've been taking piles of units over the Summer to knock everything out. Then I got in this time (Fall). And it may be that my courses will be accepted after all. I believe my academic advisor submitted petitions but I have not heard yet. Previously I was told StraighterLine was not acceptable, but I was told it was his time (by Academic Advisor) but I already left my StraighterLine classes unfinished and enrolled in a SUPER HARD Physiology class at UC Berkeley extension. I learned a lot though. I had other reasons for taking a class at a regionally accredited 4 year institution. I was told by my Academic Advisor that the reason why they don't say things are transferrable is because no one has transferred in with them yet. It may be that they will accept my classes from 30 years ago. I was also told they are taking a more holistic approach to applications by my enrollment counselor. I think enrollment counselors don't really know the details of what is accepted and what isn't. I do not have an actual answer yet on whether or not they are acceptable yet, but I will keep everyone posted.

I can't believe it, a thread about Scott TP! I called Scott and they told me they had plenty and had ramped up production, but I think it was just someone who didn't know anything. I finally gave up on looking for it at the stores or online it was making me nuts. When I was running out again, I went on Amazon a couple weeks ago and found a case of 80 rolls of Scott. It's not the 1000 single ply sheets per roll that I always bought, but 550 sheet double ply. At least I won't have to think about TP for a year.

I believe they are calling accepted applicants today to get a first headcount on those who plan to accept. Much to my SHOCK after what happened last application period, I got accepted (goes to show how the pool of applicants makes a difference). Also, -------------------- told me they analyzed applications in a bit of a different way this time, which is what I had expected last time. Since I had pretty much given up and ---------------------- had already told me that next application period you needed ALL science prereqs done (and the dinged me for old sciences in ALL of them), I decided to apply to Yale PA online which ended up being triple the work I had expected, but I am in the middle of the work so I will see what happens as ------------------ told me I can give up my spot up to beginning classes without any financial penalty and he told me that the spots that are open are for Nursing Core Classes in Spring 2021. So I will see what happens when I have an appointment with an Academic Advisor to plan things out as I am already enrolled in just about everything that they may want from me. Good luck to the rest of you. Oh - I'm a San Diego girl so VERY convenient.

@jluc13 Make sure your A&P and Micro were upper division - some of those are not transferrable. Here's the link to their course articulation database. http://services.brandman.edu/studentservices/TransferCredit/ If it's not there or if doesn't specifically state their course number, it will have to be evaluated. It appears that often this doesn't happen until they are reviewing your application for acceptance or wait list. It also appears they may give preference in admissions to those with more sciences done (an unspoken method of ranking).

@ABN Actually, this thread is mostly from accepted or waitlisted Summer 2020 cohort. The facebook group that was started should more accurately be called Summer 2020 Cohort, because of the prerequisite issue, many of them are starting clinicals in January, but some in September. I would say Brandman is organized differently than some of the other programs and possibly a bit disorganized. It is much nicer when you can get a clear evaluation of your coursework prior to application review for acceptance. Also, they do not have clear guidelines for how applicants are rated like other schools do. However, it is difficult when you accept people with different numbers of prerequisites to a cohort as it means people start clinicals at different times so they are looking at scheduling in a different way than all other programs. Hope that helps clarify.

Thanks!

@nicolie So - these are the Nursing Core Classes - 16 months and then the there is the 2 LBSUs - 2 months. That makes 18. Is that how you are counting it and that is what they are saying? National won't accept you into the degree program until you everything done and THEN it's 22 months. So if one were to knock those LBSU classes out as a non-degree student prior to being omitted to the program one could theoretically have 16 months yet if one had all other GEs done. Of course, you are taking a risk and it's 3K for what are otherwise worthless classes if you don't need units for anything.

Thanks @nicolie Did they give you an education plan? How long is it going to take?

I am with you @ABSN_SD , I expected to get in without TEAS and other prereqs starting this Summer. I am hoping not to wait until fall 2021 to start somewhere, and I don't want to wait forever or have to spend years in school to get it done. Comparing time vs money. But you could still apply at National, right? There is time before August 21 to take TEAS and stats. I might see you in their stats class this Summer. I was on that call too ?