Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

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For those of you who have recognized your employer can terminate you for not taking the COVID vaccine and have decided on or are considering employment elsewhere please share your experiences here. How do you feel about having to make that choice? 

The purpose of this thread is not to condemn those making this decision or debate whether they should vaccinate or not. 

Specializes in Psych.

I'm pretty disappointed. As a nurse I must allow my patients to have autonomy. They have the right to make their own choices. But now I'm being told that I am not allowed the same right.  This is medical tyranny at its worst.

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Specializes in ER.
23 minutes ago, Ames1979 said:

I'm pretty disappointed. As a nurse I must allow my patients to have autonomy. They have the right to make their own choices. But now I'm being told that I am not allowed the same right.  This is medical tyranny at its worst.

CDC=Catholic Church in 1500

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
24 minutes ago, Ames1979 said:

I'm pretty disappointed. As a nurse I must allow my patients to have autonomy. They have the right to make their own choices. But now I'm being told that I am not allowed the same right.  This is medical tyranny at its worst.

Nah. 

You get to choose whether you want to vaccinate.  That choice may affect where you can work.  You have exactly the same choice that your patients have.  You get to examine the facts , data and recommendations and then choose to either participate in vaccination or not.  

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
32 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Autoimmunity as the comet tail of COVID-19 pandemic

This esteemed doctor notes that actual infection carries the risk of autoimmunity.  There are so many risks associated directly with remaining unvaccinated without medical contraindication. 

Publishing this article and the letter to the editor regarding autoimmunity and vaccination are evidence that debate and discussion is alive and well.  The conspiracy that credible voices are being silenced is silly.  

Where in the world has this study been all my life!! Thanks for posting. Excellent article. 

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Specializes in A variety.
1 hour ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Where in the world has this study been all my life!! Thanks for posting. Excellent article. 

What was your understanding of the findings in this report?

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
48 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

What was your understanding of the findings in this report?

Well I'm still wading through it but, what it showed me is, this is no "ordinary" virus. It seems to cause a much bigger inflammatory response through triggering an auto immune response itself. 

"We found that there are several similar processes of immune dysregulation in patients with COVID-19 and in those with lupus, with several other alterations seen in other pathological states"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8189735/#!po=50.3968

"The above mention findings regarding autoantibodies production in SARS-CoV-2 infected patients (Table 1 ), strengthen our belief on the possibility that there could be potentially additional autoantibodies present in similar patients, and these autoantibodies might have a pivotal role in the pathophysiology of severe and life-threating manifestations in COVID-19 patients."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7598743/#!po=15.4762

-It seems possible that, while there may be some auto immune response with a covid vaccine (my main concern), it appears to be short lived in most people. D dimer "micro studies" run by PCPs I've heard about but no wide spread report of long lasting platelet activation... This is just my assumption that those positive clot labs suggest auto immune response....I haven't found anything specific.

In the interim, I've heard allot of talk about vit d. This study was holy cr#p fascinating:

"ACE2is also the receptor on host cell surface and the major entry point into cells for some coronaviruses such as HCoV‐NL63, SARS‐CoV which causes SARS and SARS‐CoV‐2 which causes COVID‐19...

...Induction of type 1a Ang II receptor (AGTR1A) enhances pulmonary vascular permeability, thereby causing lung injury and pneumonia; this possibly explains the lung damage following decreasing ACE2 expression....

...Immune cells are not only targets for active vitamin D, but are also local producers of vitamin D and are able to activate this hormone in a local fashion, thereby arguing for an autocrine or paracrine function for this vitamin within the immune system. 42 From this view, inadequate vitamin D levels can be linked to the immune anomalies, such as higher infection rates and autoimmunity. 42 According to the recent review, vitamin D is capable in lowering the risk of COVID‐19 infections and deaths through different mechanisms including maintenance of cell junctions, strengthening cellular immunity by reducing the cytokine storm with impacts on tumor necrosis factor α (TNF‐α) and interferon γ (IFN‐γ), 43 and modulating adaptive immunity by suppressing T helper cell type 1 responses and promoting T regulatory cells induction...

...Persistent deficiency in vitamin D level may activate the RAS [renin-angiotensin system], thereby leading to chronic CVD and decreased lung function as well as inducing RAS activation lung fibrosis. 58 Patients with these comorbidities account for a higher proportion of critically ill cases in COVID‐19. 58 The COVID‐19 infection becomes more severe especially in elderly, hypertensive, diabetic and obese patients and smokers. 59 Particularly in the presence of diabetes mellitus and accompanying comorbid conditions such as hypertension, obesity, old age and smoking, cytosolic pH is low, thus the virus easily may enter the cell by attaching to ACE2."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7362103/#!po=50.0000

-angiotensin 2 is a big driver in lung inflammation and it's regulated partly by vitD. A dysregulated ACE/renin system seems to be a primary causative factor behind the severe symptoms of covid not to mention it's infectivity given that the spike protein binding site is the ACE2 receptor. Low Vit D seems to be a very key component in this disease.

so here's what I'm thinking. I wonder if supplementing with vit d (which most of us are deficient in, I know I am), getting my levels up before taking a vaccine would help protect from any auto immune response from the vaccine. The paper suggests "Although it is more likely that any protective effect of vitamin D against COVID‐19 is related to suppression of cytokine response and reduced severity/risk for ARDS, there is also evidence from a meta‐analysis that regular oral vitamin D2/D3 intake (in doses up to 2000 IU/day) is safe and protective against acute respiratory tract infection, especially in subjects with vitamin D deficiency."..." To reduce the risk of infection, it is recommended that individuals at risk of COVID‐19 take 10 000 IU/day of vitamin D3 for a few weeks to rapidly increase 25(OH)D levels above 40‐60 ng/mL, followed by 5000 IU/day." 

I wouldn't claim to suggest vitD is itself protective against covid infection like a vaccine is. But. It seems it has protective effects against the immune response responsible for most of the symptoms. I wonder if it can also limit any possible vaccine injury as well. Couldn't hurt. 

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On 8/20/2021 at 10:00 PM, litepath2 said:

OP,

I went thru this back in '09 with H1N1 and was none to happy about it. I admit I was blissfully unaware the H1N1 was such a big deal. I had taken care of at least one 3rd term-preggo gal and had worried about her and the child too, but as in SARS 03, and other things-ICU, I never gave myself much thought.

So, I took their vax and left in my own time 4 Months later never to return. That vax was easier to swallow simply due to it's being in the foundational foot print of the flu vax. This mRNA tech is too new for many folks. Me included. It has somewhere between no track record and/or a poor one.

It wasn't the vax that bothered me then. l It was having to make such a choice. 

Amazing, simply amazing! 

Because someone told you to do something, your response is to immediately take offense and assert your self! By, doing the opposite? 

What's next? Should they be a certain height or sex or colour to ask you politely? How about age or ethnicity? Volume? Tone? Standing or sitting? How about nationality? 

Apparently, something I never thought of actually, certain information must be packaged in a specific way, before it is acceptable to some people! 

Any pathology involved? So the next time a disaster strikes, you need to insist that it's only acceptable, if delivered by God knows how and by whom? I have an idea, but I don't think I should say! 

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
14 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:

Amazing, simply amazing! 

Because someone told you to do something, your response is to immediately take offense and assert your self! By, doing the opposite? 

What's next? Should they be a certain height or sex or colour to ask you politely? How about age or ethnicity? Volume? Tone? Standing or sitting? How about nationality? 

Apparently, something I never thought of actually, certain information must be packaged in a specific way, before it is acceptable to some people! 

Any pathology involved? So the next time a disaster strikes, you need to insist that it's only acceptable, if delivered by God knows how and by whom? I have an idea, but I don't think I should say! 

I don't think you understood the posters point. "It wasn't the vax that bothered me then. l It was having to make such a choice. " I read it as "back then it wasn't the vax itself that bothered me. So I took it, but wasn't happy about being required to. This time it IS the vax that bothers me. I don't like the mrna tech. This thing bothers me. And that's why I'm hesitant now unlike before." That's how I read it. I may have read it wrong but in any case, You guys have got to stop being so hostile to people. 

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Specializes in A variety.
16 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

I don't think you understood the posters point. "It wasn't the vax that bothered me then. l It was having to make such a choice. " I read it as "back then it wasn't the vax itself that bothered me. So I took it, but wasn't happy about being required to. This time it IS the vax that bothers me. I don't like the mrna tech. This thing bothers me. And that's why I'm hesitant now unlike before." That's how I read it. I may have read it wrong but in any case, You guys have got to stop being so hostile to people. 

Hostility is the real example of selfishness and terrorism the unvaccinated are often accused of.

I talked to more people today who were initially hesitant then further turned off by the idea of vaccination because the approach of their DOCTOR was similar to what we read here on these forums.    Pushy and insensitive.  

It's not working folks!  

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Specializes in Psych.
5 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Nah. 

You get to choose whether you want to vaccinate.  That choice may affect where you can work.  You have exactly the same choice that your patients have.  You get to examine the facts , data and recommendations and then choose to either participate in vaccination or not.  

It's not a choice it's an ultimatum.  It's manipulation. 

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Specializes in oncology.
12 hours ago, anewsns said:

All I hear is GET VACCINATED! PERIOD!"

The best advice in the world! Go for it!

 

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
11 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Given this is still a new drug, I've been looking for suggestions on possible links to auto immunity meditated by covid vaccines. Seen a number of letters to the editor with some proposed mechanisms. The thing that stood out to me on this one was the suggestion that it's possibly more likely in those with pre existing auto immune disorders. To me that would explain the existence of reports of serious auto immune type side effects while at the same time these reports appear to be rare. It suggests there me not be a wide spread risk of new auto immune development but only exacerbation of a pre-existing condition. I hope there's studies in the future to answer the question:

"In order to avoid degradation by RNases, RNA can be encapsulated in nanoparticles or liposomes, which deliver the cargo inside target cells following a process of endocytosis. mRNA is then translated into immunogenic proteins by cell ribosomal machinery [6].

PROPOSED MECHANISMS:

However, prior to the translation, mRNA may bind pattern recognition receptors (PRRs) in endosomes or cytosol. Toll-like receptor (TLR)3, TLR7 and TLR8 are able to recognize chains of double-stranded (ds)RNA or single-stranded (ss)RNA in endosomes, while retinoic acid-inducible gene-I (RIG-I) and melanoma differentiation-associated protein 5 (MDA5) may detect short and long filaments of dsRNA in the cytosol. The final result is the activation of several pro-inflammatory cascades, including the assembly of inflammasome platforms, the type I interferon (IFN) response and the nuclear translocation of the transcription factor nuclear factor (NF)-kB [7].

Importantly, the up-regulation of these immunological pathways is widely considered to be at the basis of several immune-mediated diseases, especially in GENETICALLY PREDISPOSED SUBJECTS....[all caps added by me... It may by a good thing to study those with preexisting disorders to see if they experience negative side effects as we mass vaccinate. Are they being studied right now?]

...who have an impaired clearance of nucleic acids [8]. This could particularly hold true in young female individuals, due to the over-expression of X-linked genes presiding over the antiviral response and the stimulatory effect played by estrogens on the immune system. The X chromosome hosts several genes involved in the immune response, including TLR7 and TLR8 genes, and about 10% of microRNAs indirectly controlling the activation of the immune system [9].

THE FOLLOWING STOOD OUT TO ME AS A POSSIBLE POPULATION TO EXCLUDE FROM VACCINATION WITH MRNA VACCINES OR AT LEAST A POPULATION WE SHOULD MONITOR SEPARATELY

Therefore, young and female patients who are already affected or predisposed (e.g. immunological and serological abnormalities in absence of clinical symptoms, familiarity for immune-mediated diseases) to autoimmune or autoinflammatory disorders should be carefully evaluated for the benefits and risks of COVID-19 mRNA vaccination.

 

According to epidemiological data, these subjects may develop the infection asymptomatically or pauci-symptomatically and it is worth noting that, in line with the article of Vojdani et al. [1], the presence of autoreactive cells and autoantibodies cross-reacting against SARS-CoV-2 epitopes may even turn naturally protective towards the infection. Until proven otherwise, the administration of a nucleic acid vaccine may instead put these individuals at risk of unwanted immunological side effects by either sensitizing the PRRs or generating cross-reactive cell clones and antibodies. Moreover, COVID-19 mRNA vaccine might differently stimulate myeloid or plasmacytoid dendritic cells (DCs), generating an unbalance in the downstream cytokine pathways that play a crucial role in autoimmunity and autoinflammation [3]."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7833091/?report=reader

 

But they don't.  BTW, this is a letter to the editor.  No one has cited any evidence of long-term sequelae from a vaccine.  Problems appear quickly.   Over 5 billion doses given.

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