kicked out of school- failed professionalism!

Curious1alwys, BSN, RN · Apr 16, 2006

It is such a pain in the butt for nurses that they are expected to teach students every day on their already difficult, time crunched shifts. I think it is insane that it has to work that way. Jeez, atleast pay them more for it, you know, like a shift diff when you take a student??? Nobody likes being told that they HAVE TO do something.

In addition, it would take a HUGE mistake, like a LIFE THREATENING mistake for me to question a nurse with even 6 months more experience than me. Some of my fellow classmates will talk about what they saw nurses do..."I never saw her wash her hands once" and other various things. The air of superiority in their voices is sickening. What makes them think that because they just learned sterile technique in Nursing 101 that they know more? I just laugh at that. The nurses that are out there and WORKING are in the real world now, us students are still just getting to "play". I say to them, "come back and talk to me in 6 months".....after they are in the real world. I mean, really, how can you criticize nurses in the field when you have never been there?????

On the flip side, for students, it sucks that we have to learn sometimes from really cranky, mean, super overworked, nurses. Some nurses are just mean no matter how good of a student you are. But that is the same with lots of people, I guess... :uhoh3:

I don't think the OP will be back!!!! :uhoh3:

SmilingBluEyes · Apr 16, 2006

While I feel sincere sympathy for the OP, I think you need to completely reassess your reasons for going into nursing. It concerns me that two completely different nursing programs chose not to let you finish. Please talk to some truly impartial folks and find out what you need to change in order to be successful. Believe me, its better to find out in nursing school that nursing isn't for you, than wait until you have graduated.

RIGHT ON THE MONEY! This post is the best advice I have seen yet. :idea:

Lisa CCU RN, RN · Apr 16, 2006

I just have to say, the post I read about the intern inserting a feces covered foley into an elderly woman, that's just wrong.

As far as handwashing, a little bottle of Purell or those pumps located on the walls would work nicely. I'm not gonna nit pick about everything else, but there ARE ways to at least TRY to avoid spreading germs.

Honestly, at the hospital where I do clinicals, the nurses do use anti-bacterial foam and if we don't follow a nurse around all day--we take care of our patients by ourselves so we don't have to bother them. Any questions are directed to our instructor.

buddiage · Apr 16, 2006

I would NEVER think of "questioning" any staff nurses that insinuates that they look like an idiot or that I know more. I hate know-it-alls as much as the next person. I'm already going in feeling like I'm not really "wanted" there, so staying humble is the game plan to stay alive...however I'm not going in with my tail tucked peeing all over myself in such submission, either.

Glad this thread was started. I'm reminded of what NOT to do.(I think I know what OP means now).

KeithEMU · Apr 16, 2006

This is a very educational thread for me. I've noticed a couple of interesting things. For one, all of those that are being really critical of what nurses are doing on the floor are students. Not all of us, are being critical, but the ones that are going nuts and saying "ewww...gross, how can they do this or not do that" are all students. Interesting. I guess I will really have to watch myself as I start clinicals to make sure I don't do the same.

I have a question. I can see how hard it would be to take on a student while you are loaded down, under pressure, or learning yourself as a new grad. How can we as students make this easier. Whould it help if we kinda "gave premission" to the nurse to tell us to hold our questions, or tell us to just observe if they feel the need. Anything else? I really appreciate when a nurse takes time to help me learn, and want to make it as easy as I can while learing as much as I can. What would help. (I also LOVE the idea of giving little gifts to the nurses that have helped me. I gotta remember that.)

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Apr 16, 2006

You know the biggest thing I've found to do? I am generally assigned one to two patients and have their care done within two hours. That leaves a LOT of time to find ANY nurse and ask, "You want me to make that bed? Anyone need a bed bath? No, I really don't mind. I'm sure you have something more pressing to do." They will then be thrilled you are on the floor and will even report that fact to your instructor.

Hoping LVN2BSN · Apr 16, 2006

At some point you may learn (you know, after you get some the experience that is apparently unneccessary in your eyes) that there comes a point where turning a pt can be more cruel than helpful. If they do truly have a short time left with us, and they aren't soiled, I've often just gently repositioned the arms, maybe the legs, sometimes even just left them alone. Pressure ulcers aren't going to kill them, they're already dying. It's all about comfort. And if ignoring nursing school edicts makes a sying person more comfortable, that's what I'm going to do. And if a facility ever wants to use it as "an excuse to be fired" then I'd rather look for a job than cause needless cruelty to a dying person. It's about advocating for your patients, not blindly following a "q2 turning" plan. That's the kind of thing you learn with experience. Your other examples, wasn't there to know the whole story. But this one example alone shows to me that you don't always know best. And you might be wise to shut up and learn instead of spouting, "but in nursing school..."

I never did say I know best, but I do know from my experiences where I am, these things were not right as were verified by more than one instructor getting involved. I don't go to the staff "well in nursing school" at all. I don't spout and I don't have to shut up and I have not had one problem in nursing school or with any staff at a facility, in my first post I said that our instructor does ask us the things we see that don't look right because we are there to learn what NOT to do as nurses. That is how bad this place is, and the good staff know it, it's not just students wanting to stick their noses in because "oh my gosh we caught a staff member let's go tell." We are told if we see something with a patient we aren't sure of, like possible bloody stool, get their nurse, "excuse me Ms. soandso looks to have blood in her stool," "oh, okay" if they don't help the patient get one of us, which is exactly what we do. I have never told a staff member you need to wash your hands, this is how we were taught in skills lab, or you're doing it wrong. I do see your view in turning a dying patient who is bedridden and you are right, but people here are no longer treated with dignity, more like we need this bed, can you hurry up, it's in the attitude. I'm sure yours is not an attitude like this. If I have a question, I ask my instructor, if it's something like blood in the stool, she did go see their nurse because it is a cause for concern and the last thing is we don't say names, who did what, soando saw 10 patients and washed his hands once unless we're asked. Usually our instructor will hear things over and over again in post conference and handles them how she sees fit, at this particular place, which is the only place I am speaking of, not where anyone else works, she has gone to the DON and to our school dean to find if we can be moved. He said he knows about the site, we're using it as what not to do specifically. I listen intensly and have not taken a nonchalant know it all attitude towards learning, nor do I think I have exhibited a know it all attitude here in my posts. I have spoken to you all with respect and haven't told anyone maybe you need to shut up. Just saying that we as students can say things just in an appropriate way, by asking questions of our instructors, and staff, but asking from a learning point of view not condescendingly.

leslie :-D · Apr 16, 2006

For one, all of those that are being really critical of what nurses are doing on the floor are students. Not all of us, are being critical, but the ones that are going nuts and saying "ewww...gross, how can they do this or not do that" are all students.

i'm not sure what you're referring to but i, an rn, got sickened at the thought of a fecal-tainted foley cath being inserted. will the pt's newly dx'd uti be from e. coli or staph, since it was picked up from the floor? and if it's staph, will it be mrsa? one has to wonder how many of these nosocomial infections are from blatantly stupid and lazy practices by those who know better? :madface: i would have had a full blown hissy fit if i had witnessed that!

yet op made a wonderful point: don't automatically assume that all pts should be repo'd q2h. yes, most of them should be. but if they're hospice, then most times it's merely a very painful and futile intervention. (can you tell i'm a hospice nurse?) you don't want them staying in the same position for hrs at a time....but it's a balancing act and a judgement call but never from negligence. furthermore, from the amt of ulcers i've seen pts discharged with, i don't think that repositioning is high priority, in my area anyway.

as a student, you need to recognize there's a bigger picture that one doesn't always see. but if you know the big picture, you need to get a feel of which battle is worth fighting.

leslie

prmenrs, RN · Apr 16, 2006

I've worked w/a lot of interns. In fact, I was once accused of eating an intern for breakfast on occasion. (Hmmm. Maybe that's where the weight problem started?) Anyway. If I had been standing there when he grabbed the contaminated catheter, I'd have snatched it, and said something like, I'll get you a new one, and a chux and a sterile drape, and you need to change your gloves.

When I have a student following me, I tell them what I'm doing, having them listen, feel, look, etc., as I go thru my routine. They inevitable have an adult stethoscope, so I have them listen w/mine, learn to "hear" the newborns more rapid heartbeat, and count HR and RR on babies. I know they know how to do it on adults, but it can be more difficult w/a NB. I go thru the assessment, pointing out differences between premies and newborns.

A lot of times, what they want to do is hold and feed. OK by me. UNLESS it's a premie just learning to nipple.

When I worked in a Level 3 environment, I had two students follow me in the ICU. I started explaining everything, including what and why I was doing. I started w/emergency check and head to toe assessment, VS, like that. The older student looked fairly horrified. Book in hand, she kept asking me where our protocols were and if we had standing orders for what I was doing. I wasn't doing anything outrageous, trust me. Because SHE didn't. I never did figure out what freaked her out. That group was in NICU only one morning. What the heck were they supposed to get out of that?

KeithEMU · Apr 16, 2006

i'm not sure what you're referring to but i, an rn, got sickened at the thought of a fecal-tainted foley cath being inserted.

Just to make sure you know, I wasn't talking about the cath instance. I think I would have found an instructor pretty quick on this one... Even if I couldn't do anything about it that time, I would want to know what to do as an RN in that position. I like the comment about snaching it and offering to get a new one. Sounds like a great way to handle it, but not as I student I would think.

Retired R.N. · Apr 16, 2006

Originally Posted by traumaRUs:

> While I feel sincere sympathy for the OP, I think you need to completely reassess your reasons for going into nursing. It concerns me that two completely different nursing programs chose not to let you finish. Please talk to some truly impartial folks and find out what you need to change in order to be successful. Believe me, its better to find out in nursing school that nursing isn't for you, than wait until you have graduated.

RIGHT ON THE MONEY! This post is the best advice I have seen yet.

I have to agree with Smiling BluEyes on this also. I also would like to say that we could eliminate many of these problems by requiring that CNA education be a pre-requisite for admission into nursing school. Yes, CNA EDUCATION where the future RN learns proper clinical techniques from the very beginning of his or her nursing experience.

Lisa CCU RN, RN · Apr 16, 2006

Originally Posted by traumaRUs:
> While I feel sincere sympathy for the OP, I think you need to completely reassess your reasons for going into nursing. It concerns me that two completely different nursing programs chose not to let you finish. Please talk to some truly impartial folks and find out what you need to change in order to be successful. Believe me, its better to find out in nursing school that nursing isn't for you, than wait until you have graduated.
I have to agree with Smiling BluEyes on this also. I also would like to say that we could eliminate many of these problems by requiring that CNA education be a pre-requisite for admission into nursing school. Yes, CNA EDUCATION where the future RN learns proper clinical techniques from the very beginning of his or her nursing experience.

What do you mean by this? I am a CNA and I'm finishing up my first semester as a BSN student. We learned the same things this semester as we did in CNA classes.

In other words, we learned the importance of handwashing in both places. Actually, I became even MORE aware and paranoid of germs after Micro.

I haven't touched a door knob in 2 years lol. :lol2: