Justifying the cost of an Ivy League Nursing Education

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How do you guys justify the cost for a program like Yale, Penn or Columbia? Like why would you pick one of those over a smaller, wayyyy cheaper school? Just wondering your thoughts!

Specializes in anesthesiology.
16 minutes ago, FullGlass said:

I agree with you that the cost of education should be commensurate with projected earnings. However, not all nurses are floor nurses Many nurses become supervisors, executives, policy-makers in the government - in other words, they rise to leadership positions. Some nurses go on to earn their PhDs and perform research and teach. Going to a top school is definitely an asset for nurses with career advancement goals.

Yeah, for administration I could see where this might be helpful, I don't understand someone going into nursing with the explicit goal of becoming an administrator though.

I personally love hands on care and the clinical aspect of patient care and would be miserable pushing a corporate capitalistic agenda within a healthcare system, I'm sure that is coloring my opinion.

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Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
10 hours ago, murseman24 said:

Yeah, for administration I could see where this might be helpful, I don't understand someone going into nursing with the explicit goal of becoming an administrator though.

I personally love hands on care and the clinical aspect of patient care and would be miserable pushing a corporate capitalistic agenda within a healthcare system, I'm sure that is coloring my opinion.

Lot's of people go to nursing school with no intention of staying at the bedside for very long. In fact, most of the students and new grads I work with and interview for jobs state that they are seriously considering graduate school and are tentatively planning to return to school within 3 or 4 years of graduating. It's a major problem in the nursing profession and a major factor in staff nurse turnover.

I think you are right about one thing: your personal preferences/biases are probably coloring your opinion.

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10 hours ago, murseman24 said:

Yeah, for administration I could see where this might be helpful, I don't understand someone going into nursing with the explicit goal of becoming an administrator though.

I personally love hands on care and the clinical aspect of patient care and would be miserable pushing a corporate capitalistic agenda within a healthcare system, I'm sure that is coloring my opinion.

Different strokes, right?

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18 hours ago, murseman24 said:

I don't understand someone going into nursing with the explicit goal of becoming an administrator though.

I've seen enough things that should have hospitals and nursing homes shut down that I can completely understand why someone would.

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Specializes in anesthesiology.
8 hours ago, llg said:

Lot's of people go to nursing school with no intention of staying at the bedside for very long. In fact, most of the students and new grads I work with and interview for jobs state that they are seriously considering graduate school and are tentatively planning to return to school within 3 or 4 years of graduating. It's a major problem in the nursing profession and a major factor in staff nurse turnover.

I think you are right about one thing: your personal preferences/biases are probably coloring your opinion.

I'm assuming these students meant some kind of NP not administrator? If one wants to work in admin wouldn't it make more sense to go to business school? Isn't there a master's level degree for health care administration? Why become a nurse for that specific purpose?

And everyone says that during an interview ?

15 minutes ago, tonyl1234 said:

I've seen enough things that should have hospitals and nursing homes shut down that I can completely understand why someone would.

So why would someone want to push that agenda? The standards of care at these places are horrendous because the administrators are skimping on costs to the point of harming patients.

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Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
26 minutes ago, murseman24 said:

I'm assuming these students meant some kind of NP not administrator? If one wants to work in admin wouldn't it make more sense to go to business school? Isn't there a master's level degree for health care administration? Why become a nurse for that specific purpose?

There are many management positions that require an RN license. Assistant nurse manager, nurse manager, director of nursing, chief nursing officer just to name a few.

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2 hours ago, murseman24 said:

I'm assuming these students meant some kind of NP not administrator? If one wants to work in admin wouldn't it make more sense to go to business school? Isn't there a master's level degree for health care administration? Why become a nurse for that specific purpose?

And everyone says that during an interview ?

So why would someone want to push that agenda? The standards of care at these places are horrendous because the administrators are skimping on costs to the point of harming patients.

Because people see this going on, and then they want to get into administration to correct it.

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On 2/5/2020 at 2:25 PM, FullGlass said:

You are a CNA, not even a nurse, yet you presume to lecture RNs and NPs on their education and how to advance their careers?

No, I'm not a nurse yet. I'm only on the board of directors of a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, who oversees an entire department where I have to hire people and make those decisions.

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On 10/16/2019 at 12:40 PM, FullGlass said:

Why do people need to justify their choice of educational institution? It is THEIR decision and they are the ones will pay for tuition and any loans. Some of them may also come from wealthy families, so they have plenty of money.

My initial (non-nursing) undergrad education was Yale. In mid-life, I changed careers to nursing and completed an ABSN and then the MSN NP program at Johns Hopkins.

Ivy League colleges offer excellent educations and the chance to make contacts and build a network that can help one's career. The people who go to those schools are the people who end up running this country - look at Presidents, Senators, Representatives, Governors, Supreme Court Justices, CEOs - and how many of them have Ivy League educations - a lot.

I'm a California resident and was also accepted by UCLA for nursing, which means I got the lower resident tuition rate. UCLA did not offer very good financial aid. LA is also a very expensive place to live. Hopkins gave me a really good financial aid package and one can live cheaply in Baltimore, so Hopkins was actually cheaper for me than UCLA. About 1/2 of our class was from California, for the same reasons. I knew several ABSN students that had full-ride scholarships. Should they have turned down the chance to go to Hopkins for free?

For the MSN NP, I won a competitive Nurse Corps Scholarship - full ride, plus a living stipend. Students from schools like Hopkins are in a better position to win competitive scholarships like that.

Furthermore, schools like Yale and Hopkins are very committed to having their students actually graduate. If a student is struggling, they bend over backwards to help them. If a student flunks a class, they aren't kicked out of school, but given a way to continue their studies and graduate.

Quality of education - personally I think community college ADN programs do a fine job with their RN programs. Top-ranked schools like Yale and Hopkins also offer an excellent and rigorous education, along with the chance to do clinicals in some of the best hospitals in the world.

As a new grad RN or NP, a big name school can put a job applicant in a better position to get an interview. That is especially true for an NP, as it is MDs who generally hire NPs and they are very aware of the "best" schools. Most of the MDs who interviewed me were up front and said they wanted to meet me because I went to Hopkins.

At least in California, RNs can make great money. We've had discussions here about Kaiser RNs making $200K a year. A friend just sent me RN job listings from Santa Clara County paying $150K to $190K per year - dozens of them. "In California, registered nurses (RNs) earn more than in any other state at $102,700, and they enjoy an above-average job outlook thanks to greater availability of medical coverage and advances in medicine. It is expected that some 20,637 new RN positions will become available in CA in 2019 . . . "

https://www.nursingprocess.org/RN-salary/california/

That type of pay is adequate to financially justify the cost of an Ivy League or equivalent school.

I truly appreciate this response and breakdown of every component because I often find people give a general answer of "school is school. you will come out an RN regardless." and I feel like it is a very oversimplified answer as someone who has experienced the incredible different between high quality and low quality education. As I finished the thread, I just want to say thank you for continuously defending your statement and including more insight along the way. Because there are people who do not only want to work as a floor nurse, but want to do more within the nursing profession. 

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Like, @beeeaanss, I want to thank each of you profusely for expressing your opinions.

I am a 38-year-old mother of two young children making a career change at this time. I opened a successful yoga studio in NYC in 2011, sold it last year, worked as a birth doula for the past two years, moved to CT, and completed my nursing prerequisites this past Fall.

I am now waiting to hear back from 3 programs in total: 2 ABSNs (both private) and an MDE (Yale). I plan to ultimately complete midwifery school, and have been told by some to complete an ABSN, work as an L&D nurse for a year, and then apply for my Master's in midwifery. However, I also think time is of the essence as an older student juggling a family, and wonder if I should opt for the MDE, if given the choice. Additionally, since I am located near Yale, I have considered the fact that I would have great opportunities with preceptors with Yale, whereas I've heard from Frontier grads, for example, have a hard time.

I'd love if anyone has input in terms of midwifery, specifically.

Thanks again for everything you've shared! Those who are also making these tough decisions, such as myself, really appreciate it.

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Specializes in NP, Education, Research.
On 10/19/2019 at 8:01 PM, murseman24 said:

So why not just become a Physician's Assistant and trade the psychosocial nursing theory classes for hard medical sciences and clinical time? It sounds highly overrated.

Why doesn’t a pen become a pencil ? Because it’s a pencil.  Why doesn’t she become a PA? Because she’s nurse. 

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4 hours ago, Michelle Fornaro said:

Why doesn’t a pen become a pencil ? Because it’s a pencil.  Why doesn’t she become a PA? Because she’s nurse. 

Loved this statement!! 

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