Justifying the cost of an Ivy League Nursing Education

[Barbiegirl1229]

How do you guys justify the cost for a program like Yale, Penn or Columbia? Like why would you pick one of those over a smaller, wayyyy cheaper school? Just wondering your thoughts!

[NICU Guy, BSN, RN]

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[TheDudeWithTheBigDog, ADN, RN]

9 hours ago, FullGlass said:

Furthermore, it is not easy to find preceptors while attending NP school. Many preceptors refuse to precept students from crap schools. High quality schools do not have trouble finding preceptors. Crap schools don't find preceptors for their students. High quality schools find the preceptors.

If they're staff NPs, then they need a new job. High quality schools don't necessarily have an easier time or do a better job finding preceptorship. Mayhbe the one school by you does, but nationally, ivy leagues schools are no better than local state colleges. If you're an idiot, an education at yale doesn't magically give you the common sense to be good at your job. YOU have the bias, not NPs and hiring managers. It's YOU.

Part of most accreditations for colleges depend on the ability for their graduates to get work. They wouldn't be operating if it was that hard for their graduates to get into the field. And I don't mean the BS national accreditations that everyone obsesses with in nursing, I mean the state and regional ones that actually matter.

You're just like the people who refuse to hire someone who didn't graduate from an ACEN/CCNE accredited school. You're letting your personal bias decide who is good and who is bad. Tons of complete morons graduate from ivy league schools.

[TheDudeWithTheBigDog, ADN, RN]

7 hours ago, oneday_nursepoundcake said:

What is the equivalent of your "portfolio" when you're a new nursing grad trying to differentiate yourself?

Your resume and your ability to market yourself. Every job you've ever had can be applied to nursing in some way. You've had to manage time, deadlines, strict schedules, multiple projects at the same time, dealing with the public, double checking work, "advocating," anticipating needs... You can graduate from the easiest community college in existence and have a more hireable resume than someone that graduated at the top of the class from an ivy league school.

Any idiot can be taught to give medication. It's a 2 day class in most states to get certified. Getting certified as a med tech is usually just 2 weeks. Nursing skills... Students do them. No manager cares what school you went to, they care that you're not going to kill someone and get the hospital sued.

So how have your past jobs given you the time management skills that you'll need as a nurse? How have your jobs given you the ability to work with multiple patients and get all their needs taken care of in a reasonable amount of time? Explain to me why I should interview you and not someone else.

Answer the common interview questions in your resume.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

11 hours ago, oneday_nursepoundcake said:

I'm actually coming from a creative field that is 100% about getting work from your portfolio. And yes, it is true that this matters (beyond school, etc.) for that kind of work. But, as a middle-aged person about to enter nursing school, a HUGE concern for me trying to embark on a nursing career is what I'll have to show for myself to get that first job. Or to simply make it through that first resume pile.

What is the equivalent of your "portfolio" when you're a new nursing grad trying to differentiate yourself?

20 years ago I never would've considered even applying to a private/"elite" college, but knowing what I've experienced in the job market in general as an adult (and weighing in factors like ageism as well), I think @FullGlass has some great points that I'm taking very much to heart as I try to decide if I'm going to accept my offer to Columbia.

The top schools, like Columbia, typically have excellent financial aid packages. I'm a California resident, but Hopkins was actually cheaper for me than UCLA, because of the scholarhips Hopkins provided. Also, please apply for a Nurse Corps Scholarship. Some states have a state-level similar scholarship. That is a full ride scholarship that also provides a small living stipend. The application cycle just opened through HRSA. In return, you will have to work with an underserved population for a certain period of time. That doesn't mean you have to go live in a rural area. It includes FQHCs, Native American clinics, etc. There are also a lot of federal and state loan repayment programs for NPs. Good luck.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

3 hours ago, tonyl1234 said:

Your resume and your ability to market yourself. Every job you've ever had can be applied to nursing in some way. You've had to manage time, deadlines, strict schedules, multiple projects at the same time, dealing with the public, double checking work, "advocating," anticipating needs... You can graduate from the easiest community college in existence and have a more hireable resume than someone that graduated at the top of the class from an ivy league school.

Any idiot can be taught to give medication. It's a 2 day class in most states to get certified. Getting certified as a med tech is usually just 2 weeks. Nursing skills... Students do them. No manager cares what school you went to, they care that you're not going to kill someone and get the hospital sued.

So how have your past jobs given you the time management skills that you'll need as a nurse? How have your jobs given you the ability to work with multiple patients and get all their needs taken care of in a reasonable amount of time? Explain to me why I should interview you and not someone else.

Answer the common interview questions in your resume.

You make some good points. However, your eagerness to dismiss the importance of going to a good school is troubling. Personally, I feel I deserve the best. And doctors certainly don't have a mindset of just go to the cheapest easiest med school.

If someone can go to Hopkins for the same price, or a little more, as a community college, why on earth would they not go to a school like Hopkins, Yale, Columbia, UPenn, etc?

Community colleges do a fine job of educating RNs. However, more and more hospitals are requiring a BSN, which can't be earned at a CC. In addition, in some states like California, there is such a demand for CC ADN slots that the waiting list can be several years.

You are a CNA, not even a nurse, yet you presume to lecture RNs and NPs on their education and how to advance their careers?

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

It is ridiculous to insist that going to an Ivy does not give graduates a leg up. There are certain careers that recruit almost solely from Ivies and other "tippy top" schools. Investment banking and Big Law come to mind. These schools are very revered in the northeast and in certain big cities. Does that mean someone from a "lesser" school can't make it in today's world? Of course not. Look at a Big Law firm in NYC, Boston, other big cities, etc., and you'll be able to find a few associates who managed to defy the odds. My husband is a prime example of not needing a degree from an elite school. He went to Texas Tailgate U, but has been very successful in his career. We know many other spectacularly successful individuals who went to Western No Name University. They are not, however, living in NYC trying to compete with highly connected Ivy League grads. They are in the south, the southwest, middle America, etc. doing just fine with their public U educations.

In nursing in general, where one went to school doesn't always play a part in getting a good job. In some places, it is totally irrelevant. But enough already with the insistence that in no place does graduating from an Ivy League or similarly elite school give one a really good leg up.

Whether or not it's fair to gain an advantage from prestigious schools is not what we are discussing. There are a lot of inequities in society, and this is just one of them.

[murseman24, MSN, CRNA]

4 hours ago, FullGlass said:

You are a CNA, not even a nurse, yet you presume to lecture RNs and NPs on their education and how to advance their careers?

I've noticed this condescending, patronizing tone to be a common theme with you

[murseman24, MSN, CRNA]

2 hours ago, Horseshoe said:

It is ridiculous to insist that going to an Ivy does not give graduates a leg up. There are certain careers that recruit almost solely from Ivies and other "tippy top" schools. Investment banking and Big Law come to mind. These schools are very revered in the northeast and in certain big cities. Does that mean someone from a "lesser" school can't make it in today's world? Of course not. Look at a Big Law firm in NYC, Boston, other big cities, etc., and you'll be able to find a few associates who managed to defy the odds. My husband is a prime example of not needing a degree from an elite school. He went to Texas Tailgate U, but has been very successful in his career. We know many other spectacularly successful individuals who went to Western No Name University. They are not, however, living in NYC trying to compete with highly connected Ivy League grads. They are in the south, the southwest, middle America, etc. doing just fine with their public U educations.

In nursing in general, where one went to school doesn't always play a part in getting a good job. In some places, it is totally irrelevant. But enough already with the insistence that in no place does graduating from an Ivy League or similarly elite school give one a really good leg up.

Whether or not it's fair to gain an advantage from prestigious schools is not what we are discussing. There are a lot of inequities in society, and this is just one of them.

If it's cheaper to get into one of these schools like it was for FullGlass, then by all means go there, I'm sure it gives one an edge and you gain some unique experiences that otherwise would not have been available.

Getting an Ivy League education to become a public school teacher or floor nurse is kind of a waste IMO. Getting accepted into Harvard Law, Med, or their MBA program is a whole different ballgame then going to John Hopkins for nursing. If your goal is to become a floor nurse it's kind of silly.

[murseman24, MSN, CRNA]

15 hours ago, oneday_nursepoundcake said:

I'm actually coming from a creative field that is 100% about getting work from your portfolio. And yes, it is true that this matters (beyond school, etc.) for that kind of work. But, as a middle-aged person about to enter nursing school, a HUGE concern for me trying to embark on a nursing career is what I'll have to show for myself to get that first job. Or to simply make it through that first resume pile.

What is the equivalent of your "portfolio" when you're a new nursing grad trying to differentiate yourself?

20 years ago I never would've considered even applying to a private/"elite" college, but knowing what I've experienced in the job market in general as an adult (and weighing in factors like ageism as well), I think @FullGlass has some great points that I'm taking very much to heart as I try to decide if I'm going to accept my offer to Columbia.

If you're not quitting your full time job because it pays your bills while going to nursing school, get a job as a care tech or CNA while in school on the floor and hospital you want to work at, and get decent grades. Your job will be guaranteed.

I got 4 ICU job offers from two different states immediately after graduating, and I only put out 3 applications. I could have also gotten a job at any of the sites I went to clinical for. If you're motivated, getting a job as a floor nurse is not difficult

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

5 minutes ago, murseman24 said:

If it's cheaper to get into one of these schools like it was for FullGlass, then by all means go there, I'm sure it gives one an edge and you gain some unique experiences that otherwise would not have been available.

Getting an Ivy League education to become a public school teacher or floor nurse is kind of a waste IMO. Getting accepted into Harvard Law, Med, or their MBA program is a whole different ballgame then going to John Hopkins for nursing. If your goal is to become a floor nurse it's kind of silly.

I agree with you UNLESS you can get in and get the great financial aid that the Ivies offer. Other elites often give great merit aid. So...even if one believes that they just want to be a floor nurse, going to an Ivy or equivalent is a GREAT choice if you can do if for the same $$$ as a public, or in many cases, for LESS than a public. At that point it's a no brainer.

I should qualify that by saying that only one Ivy League school offers a BSN. The others are graduate degrees. But there are certainly other elite schools that offer BSNs that could be a wonderful choice if you get a lot of $$$ in the form of financial aid or merit scholarships.

Would I take on a lot of debt to get a nursing degree (to be a staff nurse) from an expensive school, prestigious or not? Absolutely NOT.

[murseman24, MSN, CRNA]

4 hours ago, FullGlass said:

And doctors certainly don't have a mindset of just go to the cheapest easiest med school.

Yes, because they make 400K+ and some residencies are incredibly competitive. That would make much more sense to go to an Ivy League med school when you have to compete for an arthropod, ophthalmologist, interventional radiology, cardiac, or derm residency. Not for a 60k/yr floor nurse.

Apples to oranges.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

4 hours ago, murseman24 said:

If it's cheaper to get into one of these schools like it was for FullGlass, then by all means go there, I'm sure it gives one an edge and you gain some unique experiences that otherwise would not have been available.

Getting an Ivy League education to become a public school teacher or floor nurse is kind of a waste IMO. Getting accepted into Harvard Law, Med, or their MBA program is a whole different ballgame then going to John Hopkins for nursing. If your goal is to become a floor nurse it's kind of silly.

I agree with you that the cost of education should be commensurate with projected earnings. However, not all nurses are floor nurses Many nurses become supervisors, executives, policy-makers in the government - in other words, they rise to leadership positions. Some nurses go on to earn their PhDs and perform research and teach. Going to a top school is definitely an asset for nurses with career advancement goals.