Justifying the cost of an Ivy League Nursing Education

beeeaanss · Jan 9, 2021

1 hour ago, birthworker said:

Loved this statement!!

Ditto-ing birthworker!

londonflo · Jan 9, 2021

On 10/16/2019 at 3:04 PM, FullGlass said:

For the MSN NP, I won a competitive Nurse Corps Scholarship - full ride, plus a living stipend. Students from schools like Hopkins are in a better position to win competitive scholarships like that.

Actually there is a mix of program graduates noted on the Nurse Corps site:

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Among qualified applicants with the greatest financial need (I.e., applicants with an EFC between $0 and $6,195), awards are made based on the following tiers: 1. Applicants enrolled or accepted for enrollment in an accredited diploma, undergraduate, and graduate nursing program or accredited graduate level nurse practitioner program, including nurse practitioners specializing in Psychiatric-Mental Health, programs for certified nurse midwives, registered as full-time students for every consecutive term.

On 10/16/2019 at 3:04 PM, FullGlass said:

Furthermore, schools like Yale and Hopkins are very committed to having their students actually graduate. If a student is struggling, they bend over backwards to help them.

It is much easier to problem solve academic problems if the student knows where their next meal is coming from or they are not working the night before the exam. In most ADN and LPN programs the social issues far outweigh the academic problems. I would not be surprised if there is emergency funding for small financial emergencies so the student can give all their focus to academic progress.

I have taught in all 3 types of basic education programs and I can say I received the most personal and professional satisfaction from my ADN teaching position. Last month I received this from a graduate:

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Fewer than 2% of teen moms finish college or university by age 30. I am 25 and today I turned in my last assignment for my BSN (bachelor degree in nursing) and I am so freaking proud of myself. I have cried happy tears more than once today. I showed myself and all those who doubted me that I can do hard things.

There were SO MANY obstacles but the time was going to pass anyway. So I chose to just do the damn thing and get it done.

The above is what teaching was all about for me. ☺️

Finally I have heard faculty praise their involvement in the academic achievements of their star "A" students. Smart, academic-wise students can literally teach themselves...they learned how to learn early on, academic success just reinforces their motivation to seek out learning. In medical school my son was not given "a book list." Rather the demand was for them to locate the resources that would work for them as a student. Word of mouth recommandations and buying used copies from older students were the norm. The same was true when I was in my master's program. I am sure this evolved because we develop personal preferences when we undertake a lifetime of learning.?

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Jan 9, 2021

On 12/14/2020 at 7:45 AM, birthworker said:

Like, @beeeaanss, I want to thank each of you profusely for expressing your opinions.

I am a 38-year-old mother of two young children making a career change at this time. I opened a successful yoga studio in NYC in 2011, sold it last year, worked as a birth doula for the past two years, moved to CT, and completed my nursing prerequisites this past Fall.

I am now waiting to hear back from 3 programs in total: 2 ABSNs (both private) and an MDE (Yale). I plan to ultimately complete midwifery school, and have been told by some to complete an ABSN, work as an L&D nurse for a year, and then apply for my Master's in midwifery. However, I also think time is of the essence as an older student juggling a family, and wonder if I should opt for the MDE, if given the choice. Additionally, since I am located near Yale, I have considered the fact that I would have great opportunities with preceptors with Yale, whereas I've heard from Frontier grads, for example, have a hard time.

I'd love if anyone has input in terms of midwifery, specifically.

Thanks again for everything you've shared! Those who are also making these tough decisions, such as myself, really appreciate it.

If you get into Yale, and they provide good financial aid, then go to Yale. It is a no-brainer.

simplyunique, RN · Mar 23, 2021

I wouldn't be surprised if @FullGlass works for one of the Elite Ivy League schools, because you are a great saleswoman for the brand. Point taken but please be open-minded, for I too am an active Northern Californian that has recently obtained my RN license and happened to work at one of the hospitals that you mentioned. Just be careful about sharing salaries and job opportunities that you don't have direct information about. For I do know what the going rates are, and which type of people are successful in obtaining job offers, for I have received several to speak of, and they are not concern which IVY lead nursing school you graduated from. Their main concern during the interview process is are A GOOD FIT for our patients/staff and can you keep our patients safe while providing the BEST patient care as a few of the members have mentioned OVER AND OVER AGAIN. My advice to you is don't be a Name Brand Person when you lack experience in the NURSING world as you mentioned NUMEROUS times, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN AT INFINITY OVER INFINITY. We get it with you, It's all about where you went to school at... And to that I'D SAY....Umm IT IS NOT

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Mar 23, 2021

On 3/23/2021 at 1:06 AM, simplyunique said:

I wouldn't be surprised if @FullGlass works for one of the Elite Ivy League schools, because you are a great saleswoman for the brand. Point taken but please be open-minded, for I too am an active Northern Californian that has recently obtained my RN license and happened to work at one of the hospitals that you mentioned. Just be careful about sharing salaries and job opportunities that you don't have direct information about. For I do know what the going rates are, and which type of people are successful in obtaining job offers, for I have received several to speak of, and they are not concern which IVY lead nursing school you graduated from. Their main concern during the interview process is are A GOOD FIT for our patients/staff and can you keep our patients safe while providing the BEST patient care as a few of the members have mentioned OVER AND OVER AGAIN. My advice to you is don't be a Name Brand Person when you lack experience in the NURSING world as you mentioned NUMEROUS times, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN AT INFINITY OVER INFINITY. We get it with you, It's all about where you went to school at... And to that I'D SAY....Umm IT IS NOT

It is very difficult to understand your post because the writing quality is very poor.

1. I do not work for any school

2. I have never worked in a hospital, or claimed to work in a hospital, so I have no idea what you mean when you say I have shared salaries from hospitals

3. I have been very clear that a public university, college, or community college can provide an excellent nursing education for a reasonable cost. My issue is with shady for-profit schools. For those who can attend a prestigious school, it may very well be worth it. You say nothing to refute that.

4. Frankly, as someone who just got their RN license, I doubt you really know much about nursing or the hiring process. I obtained my RN license in 2014 and NP license in 2016, so I have a fair amount of experience. Prior to that, I was a senior business executive for over 20 years, running large organizations with multimillion dollar budgets.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Dec 15, 2021

On 10/17/2019 at 6:53 PM, FullGlass said:

Wrong. When you apply for your first RN job as a new grad, that is the first thing an employer will look at. They will also demand a copy of your transcripts. And don't delude yourself. I've been a hiring manager. When I get new grad resumes, I definitely look at their school. In addition, some schools have very large and powerful alumni networks. UCLA is great example for California - very loyal alumni who will definitely give more consideration to a UCLA grad. In Baltimore-Washington DC, Johns Hopkins and U of Maryland grads are going to be rated higher on initial evaluation.

Good community colleges can also have an "in" in their area. I'm from North San Diego County, which has 2 fine ADN nursing programs - Mira Costa and Palomar. Their grads get hired by the best hospitals in San Diego County, such as UCSD, the VA, Scripps, and Sharp, but that is because the students do clinicals there and there are also alumni from those schools working there. A new grad moving to San Diego County who has gone to a school with no name recognition will be at a disadvantage when looking for work.

A loooong time ago, I went to an Ivy league school for my CRNA Education and back then, it was worth it. There were only 9 people in the class and all of our clinicals were done in NYC with Columbia faculty. The patients were very protected:):):) because we had excellent instructor supervision and MD's who were specialists in their field taught our physiology courses. But things have changed a lot. Their class size is now in the 30's and students are farmed out to clinicals to places where there aren't any Columbia faculty and IMHO, it's now a hot mess. The degree does not have the status it once had. Having that degree back then opened a lot of doors for me in NYC and I made multiple times over on my investment. But it was a huge sacrifice involving several years of peanut butter sandwiches every day and renting a sofa in someone's living room. But it was also the most intellectual challenging 2 years in a total of 14 years of college. For the "average" RN working in an "average" location, no, one doesn't have to spend that kind of money. But I didn't want an average career. It is disappointing to see people bad mouth people who make the sacrifice to spend for the future they want and I don't disparage people who, for whatever reason., cannot make that kind of sacrifice because they can't afford it. I totally understand. I had the luck of a small inheritance that paid for the first year and I borrowed to pay the second year. Yes, I had loans to pay off but I was accustomed to living a simple life:)-

FiremedicMike, BSN, RN, EMT-P · Dec 21, 2021

On 1/9/2021 at 7:39 AM, Michelle Fornaro said:

Why doesn’t a pen become a pencil ? Because it’s a pencil. Why doesn’t she become a PA? Because she’s nurse.

To be fair, FullGlass is pretty open about the fact that she was a direct entry NP student, transitioning from a different career entirely, and was not a nurse.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Dec 22, 2021

11 hours ago, FiremedicMike said:

To be fair, FullGlass is pretty open about the fact that she was a direct entry NP student, transitioning from a different career entirely, and was not a nurse.

And what is your point?

subee, MSN, CRNA · Dec 22, 2021

On 3/23/2021 at 1:06 AM, simplyunique said:

I wouldn't be surprised if @FullGlass works for one of the Elite Ivy League schools, because you are a great saleswoman for the brand. Point taken but please be open-minded, for I too am an active Northern Californian that has recently obtained my RN license and happened to work at one of the hospitals that you mentioned. Just be careful about sharing salaries and job opportunities that you don't have direct information about. For I do know what the going rates are, and which type of people are successful in obtaining job offers, for I have received several to speak of, and they are not concern which IVY lead nursing school you graduated from. Their main concern during the interview process is are A GOOD FIT for our patients/staff and can you keep our patients safe while providing the BEST patient care as a few of the members have mentioned OVER AND OVER AGAIN. My advice to you is don't be a Name Brand Person when you lack experience in the NURSING world as you mentioned NUMEROUS times, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN AT INFINITY OVER INFINITY. We get it with you, It's all about where you went to school at... And to that I'D SAY....Umm IT IS NOT

If the person is grateful for their education why would you even argue about the quality of their degree? Can't someone just go to schol where they want without being cricized for it? The poster is clear that other programs put out equally qualified nurses.

FiremedicMike, BSN, RN, EMT-P · Dec 22, 2021

On 12/21/2021 at 7:17 PM, FullGlass said:

And what is your point?

I was responding to a post that said you became an NP and not a PA because you were already a nurse. I would have been a direct entry student too but I couldn’t do the RN year full time.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Dec 23, 2021

On 1/9/2021 at 11:17 AM, londonflo said:

Actually there is a mix of program graduates noted on the Nurse Corps site:

In most ADN and LPN programs the social issues far outweigh the academic problems.

I have taught in all 3 types of basic education programs and I can say I received the most personal and professional satisfaction from my ADN teaching position.

Thank you for your response.

While there are a mix of program graduates noted on the Nurse Corps site, it is a competitive process. The odds of getting this scholarship are higher from better schools. What may be at play is the students who are in the best schools are better able to submit a more competitive application.

I have taken a lot of community college courses and understand many students have social problems. However, so do many students in other schools. My freshman year at Yale, one of my best friends went in to the restroom in the library, and saw blood everywhere. A student had just slit their wrists and died in there. My roommate also tried to commit suicide, but we caught her in time. Those schools have many students who have been under intense pressure their whole lives from parents. In addition, students from underprivileged backgrounds going to those schools can have real culture shock and need support adjusting to a very different environment. I came from such a background.

I have seen many posts on this site from students at not-so-great nursing schools who are terrified of being kicked out for failing a class, etc. Even public schools can be quite rigid. The better private schools want to maintain a high graduation rate and they simply provide better student service. They will bend over backwards to prevent a student from dropping out. Some students may need to take a year off and come back, and these schools will accommodate this. It's like the difference between shopping at Wal Mart or Neiman Marcus/Nordstroms. The service level is far higher in the latter.

I do find the teachers at community colleges to be excellent, often better than at 4-year colleges.

My point is that I don't want prospective nursing students to just assume they won't get in/can't afford an Ivy League education. For a bright student with good grades and an interesting background, go ahead and apply!

londonflo · Dec 23, 2021

15 minutes ago, FullGlass said:

I have taken a lot of community college courses and understand many students have social problems.

I appreciate your comment but you don't know even the half of the social problems (NOT Psych - SOCIAL) we see in a CC program. We have food banks, I work with some local programs that give students bus fare tokens to get to school, and their are many instances of domestic violence where the abuser takes away the student's telephone so they cannot call their absence from a beating that prevents them from attending school.

Just taking a lot of CC courses does not clue you in to the horrible circumstances students experience. Looking at a surface level of a school you attended for a few classes - does NOT give you ANY insight as to what lies under the surface. Don't you think these students want to blend into the whole student population? Don't you think they try to do that? Did anyone come up to you and say I don't have any food, gas money? I don't have any one to babysit on my clinical days, etc.?

20 minutes ago, FullGlass said:

My freshman year at Yale, one of my best friends went in to the restroom in the library, and saw blood everywhere. A student had just slit their wrists and died in there. My roommate also tried to commit suicide, but we caught her in time.

Yes we have these horrible events too. These are ever-present in this world, I am afraid. But we don't even have a student health service.

Social problems of domestic violence, food insecurity, lack of family's support in baby sitting services etc. are inherent in a population that has limited financial resources, limited guidance from any parent (if they) went to college. May be it would be best to stay in your Yale lane even if includes a limited CC experience. BTW I also went to a big name school, had classmates with underlying stress/psych problems but never realized the DEPTH of the STRUGGLES of someone trying to improve their social circumstances via a CC education until I worked there. WE ARE NOT ALL ALIKE! Have you thought about making a donation to your CC to insure the student body seems fine, fed and with no financial insecurities? Because frankly you really don't know anything about CC education with a few classes.

From your comments about the psychosocial services at Yale, I have lost a lot of respect for them. I am glad I make my contributions to my local community college and starting a scholarship there.