Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

twotrees2 · Nov 17, 2006

Yes, we want to be seen as a profession deserving of respect. But we are in the midst of a nursing/staffing shortage already (yes, I know, if they paid better, there wouldn't be such a shortage yada yada, but that doesn't change the fact that right now we need more nurses in the hospitals...today!) .

honestly though i dont think i make enough for what i do - i would be happy with just having them staff appropriately and keep my meager salary - i can live on it and the staffing issue would lessen the load making me feel as if i can make a difference with my residents making me feel better about my choice of careers.

twotrees2 · Nov 17, 2006

We can appreciate the nurses who have pursued higher credentials and the important contributions they are making to nursing in their areas of expertise, however BSN or higher is not necessary to provide competent nursing care. (I've heard a nurse educator (PhD) seriously propose that a 7 year masters degree be the minimum entry level requirement to take temperatures and pass bedpans. Not joking.)
The fact is, we need more nurses, from whatever RN education programs, who pass the NCLEX-RN, and we need them giving direct patient care.
Restricting access to RN education would simply eliminate many from considering nursing as a career. Not everyone pursuing a career as a RN is straight out of high school. Many of us went into nursing as a second career. I would not have considered nursing, if I had to go to college for a BSN, so healthcare would have been without my contributions for the past 25 years. Plain and simple.
I do continue my education, as necessary, to stay up to date in my area of practice. Annual mandatory CEU's, that update nurses in general, on critical, real and present changes in practice, would be good for the profession. A vague requirement for CEU's that can include off-the-wall theories, only allows charlatans to exploit the CEU requirement.
In all of the discussions about BSN minimum requirement that I have seen over the years, I have never seen anyone apply the nursing process to the problem.
What is the problem?
An excess of something?
A lack of something?
A danger of something?
As professional nurses, do we set unrealistic goals for out patients?
Why set unrealistic goals for our profession?
One of the big arguments for the BSN minimum requirement is the "critical thinking" skills that are gained the BSN program, yet I have not heard any of those masterful, critical thinkers come up with an argument for the BSN minimum requirement that is anything other than pure speculation. The only real benefit I see, is for those in ivory towers, who are vested in the provision of advanced degrees.
Like I wrote at the top. There are some nurses who can accomplish a lot by pursuing an advanced degree, but those of us in the trenches are doing fine without one, and a minimum requirement of BSN would be disastrous for healthcare.
Blessings,
waterbabies

i have had to straighten several BSN's out on thier critical thinking - and common sense - just cause they got BSN behoind their name doesntmean they ahve better critical thinking than someone with less traing.

twotrees2 · Nov 17, 2006

I am currently an accelerated BSN student and just like the masses in allnurses.com, I wondered what the difference was. These days, I'm sure we're hearing a lot about "evidence based practice." Unfortunately, the ADN course does not prepare nurses with sound literature research skills. Apparently, studies have been conducted regarding the use of EBP vs. peer transferred interventions and EBP resulted in more favorable outcomes. The research skill, which a BSN track provides, is "supposed" to enable us to more effectively review and critique the latest research and apply them into practice. I guess it also ties into all the legal stuff that nurses are subjected to if a patient decides to sue somebody.
In my little experience so far, it seems that nursing care is largely intuitive. In having research supporting your care, it would be more difficult for anyone to pick on you if your interventions are supported by research.
I hope this helps.

personally i have no interest to research anything that has nothing to do with what im doing - and if it does have to do with what im doing isnt that what the bsn shoudl be doing and inservicing and teaching me this stuff?

Marsha Miller · Nov 17, 2006

Thank you for comments. Having a BSN does not make you more equipped to care for patients, but I wish we as nurse would want more for the profession of nursing. I have come up the line of nursing (CNA, LPN, Diploma, BSN), so I have seen many facets of my "life" in nursing. I think the ADN's and Diploma RN's should be grandfathered in. The research component you get in the BSN program may not affect you now, but hopefully enought new BSN students will run with this information they are exposed to and want to make a difference in our profession. It takes all of us to make it work. It's OK if some things just don't matter to some. I hope that enough matters to many to push us forward. I am currently in a master's program, and some of the "busy" work is not making much sense to me know, hopefully at the end I will see the importance of it all as I did after taking the "Role Transition" course in my BSN studies.

BSN better to care for patients. . . no! BSN better for the profession. . . yes!

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Nov 17, 2006

BSN better to care for patients. . . no! BSN better for the profession. . . yes!

In this last statement, you hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, many of those that advocate for BSN entry do so by claiming that both assertions are true. Lost in the translation is the education that comes from experience.

So long as those that must sign on to this idea are forced fed the mantra that the idea is to improve the practice of nursing, and not just the professional goals of nursing, you will not find a consensus, even with a grandfather clause.

When you (not YOU) put down the majority of nurses to make your case, you also turn the majority of nurses completely off to this idea.

There is a case to be made. The very first step is to break this 40-yr pattern of insulting current nurses with the 'technical' slur and to refrain from the current concept of 'inter-differentiation' of RN practice. THEN, maybe this discussion can undergo a fresh and realistic debate.

Until then, the NEXT 40 yrs will see this idea advance just as slowly as the last 40 yrs.

~faith,

Timothy.

tofutti · Nov 17, 2006

my state is making it easier for adn's to get their bsn. after graduating, some adn program's grads are automatically accepted to the state university's rn to bsn program.

but if you accept this "huge gift" of being automatically accepted, when it was never hard to get accepted to it in the first place, there's a catch. you cannot take the nclex at the end of your adn program, you must finish the bsn. whereas someone who says "no thanks" can get their adn, pass nclex, get a job, then start the rn to bsn part time on the side, with employer tuition reimbursement to boot.

so the program is not adding any new rn's to the state, but it is guaranteeing revenue for the state university. and yes it probably will increase the % of bsn nurses over time, but those students always had that choice anyway, and many routes to achieve it.

:smackingf

on the upside, they're standardizing requirements among all the community college programs.

tofutti

:studyowl:work smarter not harder!

MB37 · Nov 17, 2006

I read the OPs post like cyberkat - that it would grandfather in existing ADN/Diploma nurses, but require new grads of an ADN program to complete RN-BSN bridge within 10 years. That actually sounds somewhat feasible, as long as they continue to offer that route and don't phase out the ADN programs until/if the universities can handle more students. In my area, the public BSN program is very difficult to get into for direct entry. However, any board-certified RN is admittted automatically and is allowed to take as many or as few classes per semester, online or on campus, as needed to complete the bridge at his/her own pace. Space in classes permitting, of course, but they don't turn RNs away from the program. RNs could graduate, work for a year, and then take just 1-2 classes per year to slowly work their way to a BSN if that was the track that worked for them. Probably on the hospital's dime, too. I'm doing an Accelerated BSN program, b/c I have the time and money right now, but I don't see how my idea could be too much of a hardship, especially if only required for recent/new grads.

LADY55902 · Nov 17, 2006

Ever since I went to nursing school in 1987-88 school year for LPN that is all i have heard is to go back to school get your RN, so on, I went back to school got my RN been out a year now im hearing it again Get your bsn when will it stop. I have lost many jobs because of this issue have recently gone back into acute care only because I was in School. when i fishished i didnt have a job because i wasnt a bsn.

well i moved my family across the country for this wonderful hospital job that was going to be so much better. BS NOW A year later im moving my family across country again becase of big layoffs and revamping the system. if i have to go back to school again it wont be for nursing ever again.

i do love the proffession , why not make everyone sitting on welfare go back to school or no check.

twotrees2 · Nov 18, 2006

Ever since I went to nursing school in 1987-88 school year for LPN that is all i have heard is to go back to school get your RN, so on, I went back to school got my RN been out a year now im hearing it again Get your bsn when will it stop. I have lost many jobs because of this issue have recently gone back into acute care only because I was in School. when i fishished i didnt have a job because i wasnt a bsn.
well i moved my family across the country for this wonderful hospital job that was going to be so much better. BS NOW A year later im moving my family across country again becase of big layoffs and revamping the system. if i have to go back to school again it wont be for nursing ever again.
i do love the proffession , why not make everyone sitting on welfare go back to school or no check.

part of the problem is there is no welfare - well in wisconsin anyways - its called work for welfare or something - one has to go to work 40 hours a week to where and when they say and you have no choice if you "cant" find a job -( usually its volunteering so to speak at shelters, thrift stores the like but at the whim of the county and they dont care if your in school or not - matter of fact the changes came right in my last semester of my schooling and i early did not pass due to the fact that i was running their schedule and not getting to school classes - i was able to talk them into gradfathering me in with many help of instructors who went to bat to say - hey - you keep making her do this she isnt gonna pass and will never get off welfare ) many are single women and have numerous kids- and cant raise a family go to school full time and work full time and actually get ahead. i have friends who tried but job and school and kids all full time dont mix ( who do you tell you will be late and who will care and either keep your job or get a good grade if you are late or absent due to work all the time - who watches your kids when noone wants to work past 5 or weekends or holidays to watch your kid - or watch your kid when they are sick and that is all sooo true here in wisconsin for sure . ) i was blessed - i had welfare back in my day - raising 4 kids id have never made it if i hadn't - and i went slow cause i was kinda slow in the learning area myself. ( 3 1/2 yrs abot almost 4 for a 2 yr program ) add onto that a disabled child plus 3 others all between 3 and 6 ( nephew and niece i had thrown on my porch) ( plus my 2) - sad that some abused the system to keep getting it ( and for what i dont know it wasn't like it was really a lot of money - even with food stamps we struggled daily to eat and live so that to me was an incentive to get off the crap) but they would - theyd pop out kids and stay on and be keeping on having kids - etc - ruined it for many who may really have been willing to get ahead - they talked of making those on welfare taking depo shots to keep from getting pregnant while on welfare - i wrote state id be happy to do so ( didnt want another kid right then cause couldn't feed the ones i had on welfare ) and it should be made so but they never did - against women's rights blah blah - so now no one gets anything much here. sad cause there are so many that WOULD go to school to get off - if they had the chance..................... just my opinion from what i have been through and what i have seen.........................

subee, MSN, CRNA · Nov 20, 2006

Ever since I went to nursing school in 1987-88 school year for LPN that is all i have heard is to go back to school get your RN, so on, I went back to school got my RN been out a year now im hearing it again Get your bsn when will it stop. I have lost many jobs because of this issue have recently gone back into acute care only because I was in School. when i fishished i didnt have a job because i wasnt a bsn.
well i moved my family across the country for this wonderful hospital job that was going to be so much better. BS NOW A year later im moving my family across country again becase of big layoffs and revamping the system. if i have to go back to school again it wont be for nursing ever again.
i do love the proffession , why not make everyone sitting on welfare go back to school or no check.

It will stop when you get BSN. If this is what the market is requesting, then you'll have to get it, or be content with a job with differing requirements. I don't know if its a good idea to fill the "proffession" with people on the welfare rolls. Some of them are there because they made incredibly bad choices and they're still not seeing the light. I'd prefer recruiting from a more functional group of people. There is plenty of work that they can do in satellite fields that wouldn't require so much schooling and time away from their children. If you love nursing and talking about "if I have to go back to school", then why not stay with something you love and get more job security at the same time? Good luck. You've had to do an awful lot of moving which I know is stressful. I hope you get the job you want.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Nov 20, 2006

I am currently an accelerated BSN student and just like the masses in allnurses.com, I wondered what the difference was. These days, I'm sure we're hearing a lot about "evidence based practice." Unfortunately, the ADN course does not prepare nurses with sound literature research skills. Apparently, studies have been conducted regarding the use of EBP vs. peer transferred interventions and EBP resulted in more favorable outcomes. The research skill, which a BSN track provides, is "supposed" to enable us to more effectively review and critique the latest research and apply them into practice. I guess it also ties into all the legal stuff that nurses are subjected to if a patient decides to sue somebody.
In my little experience so far, it seems that nursing care is largely intuitive. In having research supporting your care, it would be more difficult for anyone to pick on you if your interventions are supported by research.
I hope this helps.

descarte: I am confused by your post. You've insinuated that you've been inculcated with EBP and appreciate the application of research to practice, then you go on to say that nursing care is largely "intuitive." When you get out in the real world, you'll find yourself constantly questioning how things are done, based on the evidence; that is where your research skills are applied and, if you want to keep up, you're going to have to constantly review the research literature. I don't see anything "intuitive" about that.

txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN · Nov 20, 2006

Is there anyone here that that can see a problem with this post????? Are you saying that because someone is on the welfare system that they are not able to function in a position that requires "much schooling"...and please explain to me what a "functional group of people "really is... Now I have only read about 80% of the post on this thread but this to me just stands out like e sore thumb....and while I am a horrible speller ..let me point out it's "profession".... :rolleyes:

It will stop when you get BSN. If this is what the market is requesting, then you'll have to get it, or be content with a job with differing requirements. I don't know if its a good idea to fill the "proffession" with people on the welfare rolls. Some of them are there because they made incredibly bad choices and they're still not seeing the light. I'd prefer recruiting from a more functional group of people. There is plenty of work that they can do in satellite fields that wouldn't require so much schooling and time away from their children. If you love nursing and talking about "if I have to go back to school", then why not stay with something you love and get more job security at the same time? Good luck. You've had to do an awful lot of moving which I know is stressful. I hope you get the job you want.