Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

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An instructor of mine (I'm in another state) stated that she recently went to a national educators conference and that they were saying that within the next several years in NY it would be mandatory to have your BSN. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
bad, bad, bad idea.

an rn with a bsn is no more qualified to care for a patient than an rn with a diploma/adn.

...(by the way, if anyone is wondering, i do have a bsn)

hello,

while i fully grasp your point that clinical care is clinical care, (and actually lived experience means a lot), i also understand that study after study have shown that a college degree is the new "high school diploma".

regardless of what the ba/bs degree is in it is being proven that it is in itself the new entry level to vocation degree, regardless of which field.

gen-and no, i do not have any studies or sitings...i thought it had become common knowledge by now

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Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
I think something similar goes on in education. In many school districts and perhaps even states you can get a teaching certificate with a bachelor's degree but must earn a master's within a certain time in order to maintain the credential. This is for teaching public school, naturally.

Hi,

Yes, and the very same with Social Workers, (of which I was aiming to become). So, the time, sweat, money and energy that goes into that esteemed MSW will earn ya a whopping 28K a year. :)

How is that for an entry level degree? although, I am of a different mindset...I think that Nursing should also require such a professional degree, (not just the four year degree but, masters prepared), I mean come on, even physical therapist need to have their DOCTORATE for entry level...professional.

Gen-fully expecting that grandfathering would happen for previously degreed and practicign RNs.

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Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
...

i do love the proffession , why not make everyone sitting on welfare go back to school or no check.

Oh please,

Tell me you just didn't write that!

please read this as intended as coming from a mild mannered, person who is doing one of those V-8 moments with a laugh...if not, my apologies, tell me and I will delete...

As a side note, while I was doing research for my undergrad, (sociology/psych) degree I actually came across lots and lots of information for the welfare to work programs that were indeed expressly stating for the welfare recipients to get hospital jobs and to work as CNAs.

However, back to your statement...please, do not even go there with that finger pointing, self-serving bias and victim blame, okay? Thank you,

Gen

p.s. if this came out poorly or seemingly hostile I apologize adn will edite/delete...but, I think it might be worded in a way to give a good enough sense...

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Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
Last time I trained a BSN student in an ICU setting, she said , I'm only here to observe the vent. So I sat a chair down in front of the vent and said if that red ligt beeps three times come get me, if the yellow alarms run for cover. Let me know right away if a monkey comes out of the back door. Mean while my ADN student had assesed her pt, and was working on documentation that was excellent I might add. I went to a diploma school , my instructors would have had a feild day with a comment like that. Let me re phrase that, I would not have been stupid enough to say that to my instuctors. I was ready to tell her about the vent at 6:30 in the morning before I even walked in to see the pt. as well as the med the DX, treatments etc...

Oh boy,

So, based on that one 'odd' vent supervising student you label all BSN students as being in her shoes?

Gen, pshaw

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Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
my answer is there is nothing wrong with having the research - i will gladly read any reserch pointed out to me

....however as i stated i will gladly look at and consider anyone elses research that is offered to me :)

I personally would much rather seek for msyelf than to trust the potential propoganda or biased or overlooked absent-minded ness of whomever is doing the "seeking" it for you or me.

Would you not research if it were your own diagnosis, your family or loved ones? Would you "really" only read what someone else tells you too?

Gen

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Well to get back to the Original Poster's question/concern:

This (all BSN nursing force concept) did not work in North Dakota. They have since repealed this.

Now--- It surely would behoove you to go for your BSN; just as it would us all. No way will I say gaining formal education is a bad idea, it helps you, the rest of nursing, and your patients to do this.

But this will be hard to make work and enforce, unless your state has an extreme overage of RNs and can afford to loose a LOT of them through attrition by not obtaining their BSNs in the requisite time. I predict this won't come to pass.

We already are losing so many nurses to retirement (baby boomers are the majority and the average RN is now well over 40). Also, many others are leaving nursing, or at least the bedside, due to burnout. Like I said, it will be difficult for this to fly, given these factors, alone.

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Specializes in ED, ICU, MS/MT, PCU, CM, House Sup, Frontline mgr.
Hi,

Yes, and the very same with Social Workers, (of which I was aiming to become). So, the time, sweat, money and energy that goes into that esteemed MSW will earn ya a whopping 28K a year. :)

Let me clarify that Social Work does not have an MSW as entry. Social workers can gain entry as a paraprofessional with as little as a GED/High School diploma. One can gain a professional license as a clinician in some States with as little as a BA/BS after putting in about 2 years of clinical work (MSWs usually need 2 years too).

As for pay, it all depends on what position you hold as an MSW plus your location. In my State, for instance, pay is a joke. This is why when I returned to graduate school I did not earn a MSW rather I earned an MBA and I moved out of social work and into health care.

I think you made the right decision. I like helping people, but I had a problem helping people who are working class making slightly less then I did when I worked full-time with one going on two college degrees at the time. ;)

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Specializes in PICU, Nurse Educator, Clinical Research.
part of the problem is there is no welfare - well in wisconsin anyways - its called work for welfare or something - one has to go to work 40 hours a week to where and when they say and you have no choice if you "cant" find a job -( usually its volunteering so to speak at shelters, thrift stores the like but at the whim of the county and they dont care if your in school or not - matter of fact the changes came right in my last semester of my schooling and i early did not pass due to the fact that i was running their schedule and not getting to school classes - i was able to talk them into gradfathering me in with many help of instructors who went to bat to say - hey - you keep making her do this she isnt gonna pass and will never get off welfare ) many are single women and have numerous kids- and cant raise a family go to school full time and work full time and actually get ahead. i have friends who tried but job and school and kids all full time dont mix ( who do you tell you will be late and who will care and either keep your job or get a good grade if you are late or absent due to work all the time - who watches your kids when noone wants to work past 5 or weekends or holidays to watch your kid - or watch your kid when they are sick and that is all sooo true here in wisconsin for sure . ) i was blessed - i had welfare back in my day - raising 4 kids id have never made it if i hadn't - and i went slow cause i was kinda slow in the learning area myself. ( 3 1/2 yrs abot almost 4 for a 2 yr program ) add onto that a disabled child plus 3 others all between 3 and 6 ( nephew and niece i had thrown on my porch) ( plus my 2) - sad that some abused the system to keep getting it ( and for what i dont know it wasn't like it was really a lot of money - even with food stamps we struggled daily to eat and live so that to me was an incentive to get off the crap) but they would - theyd pop out kids and stay on and be keeping on having kids - etc - ruined it for many who may really have been willing to get ahead - they talked of making those on welfare taking depo shots to keep from getting pregnant while on welfare - i wrote state id be happy to do so ( didnt want another kid right then cause couldn't feed the ones i had on welfare ) and it should be made so but they never did - against women's rights blah blah - so now no one gets anything much here. sad cause there are so many that WOULD go to school to get off - if they had the chance..................... just my opinion from what i have been through and what i have seen.........................

first off, WOW. I'm so impressed that you were able to make it work despite the tremendous challenges you were faced with. you should be proud of what you were able to do, and I hope your kids are proud of you, too.

we had several women in my graduating class in a situation similar to yours. some made it through, some didn't. It was hard- especially when it came to dealing with childcare issues. It's hard to expect an instructor to make an allowance for someone dealing with taking care of a sick kid, because once you open the door a crack, even for a legitimate reason that can't be avoided, there will be people left and right trying to get accommodations for a million different reasons. I had to take an exam early one semester because I needed to have surgery- which ticked off a girl who wanted to take hers early so she could go on vacation to mexico earlier. know what I mean?

anyway, sorry about the tangent, everybody.

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Specializes in PICU, Nurse Educator, Clinical Research.

know what I'd like to see in this thread? someone explaining how a state (pick one, it's up to you) will fund this monumental overhaul of nursing education! It's only been mentioned a couple of times that you need an MSN or PhD to teach beyond the ADN level, and in some states, an MSN is required to teach beyond the LPN level. And guess what those instructors make? Not a heck of a lot- especially considering the other areas they can pursue for more cash. University instructor pay is abysmal- I have several friends who teach at the university level, and until you're either published somewhere or tenured, the pay sucks. Meanwhile, an ADN could take a travel job and make a six-figure income. No wonder the equation isn't working!

Oh, and don't forget how many clinical instructors you need. I believe the law in NC was 1 instructor for every 8 students on the floor. Even if you're grandfathering in all the current ADN and Diploma nurses, you still have a HUGE population of people you'd need to divert into BSN programs. Will the clinical instructors need an MSN as well?

Even if the states find the cash to pay all these extra instructors (and future instructors will need $ to pay for grad school- I doubt hospitals are going to foot the bill if the new MSN/PhD is going to teach full-time instead of work solely for the hospital), they'll have to make BSN programs accessible to those considering nursing school who:

- can't currently afford the BSN tuition (that was me)

- have college credits from other programs that are too old to transfer (that was me as well)

- have another Bachelor's degree but don't have access to a 2nd degree Accelerated BSN program

- can't afford to spend 4 years in a job with flexible enough hours to allow for the demands of nursing school- because, quite frankly, most of these jobs (i.e. CNA, EMT, etc.) don't pay well enough to keep a roof over one's head for very long (yep, me again!)

So...the states are going to have some cash flow issues. Will they increase taxes? Charge more for university tuition? Build toll roads? Squeeze the already stretched public school system some more?

Am I missing something here? Or is this the reason states haven't pursued this?

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Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
Let me clarify that Social Work does not have an MSW as entry. Social workers can gain entry as a paraprofessional with as little as a GED/High School diploma. ... ;)

Hi,

Well, technically they could get hired without the MSW yes, you are right. However it is actually a very competitive job for such minimal financial reward.

I mean the "licensed social workers" and not just people who work in social work as para-professional. You are very right, I was not specific. I guess it might be similar to the difference between a phyical therapist and a rehab assistant. Maybe. Or the difference between an RN and a patient care tech, ?

Gen

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Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
...- can't afford to spend 4 years in a job with flexible enough hours to allow for the demands of nursing school- because, quite frankly, most of these jobs (i.e. CNA, EMT, etc.) don't pay well enough to keep a roof over one's head for very long (yep, me again!)

Hi there,

Yes, me too again! Those darn roofs and rent and food and things! Don't even think about getting sick either because time off of work is money off your grocery or bills!

You post is highly valid and one of the major reasons that this hasn't been put into action, along with the strong hold of the junior colleges too.

Gen

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Specializes in ED, ICU, MS/MT, PCU, CM, House Sup, Frontline mgr.
Hi,

I mean the "licensed social workers" and not just people who work in social work as para-professional. You are very right, I was not specific. I guess it might be similar to the difference between a phyical therapist and a rehab assistant. Maybe. Or the difference between an RN and a patient care tech, ?

Gen

Actually that is not a good comparison considering someone with a BS/BA degree can obtain a license and work as a clinician but a tech cannot obtain a license and work as a RN without the schooling. The field of social work in fact is very unique and is a bad example. That is the point I was trying to make. I do agree, the pay is horrid compared to the knowledge and experience you must have to be considered an expert within the field.

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