Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

kjt2004 · Dec 12, 2004

I read an article about it. I believe that the powers that be are pushing for it. The plan is to grandfather in current RNs without their BSNs and new ADN grads will have 10 years to complete their BSN.

I think it is a wonderful idea. We need to empower ourselves.

An instructor of mine (I'm in another state) stated that she recently went to a national educators conference and that they were saying that within the next several years in NY it would be mandatory to have your BSN. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

live4today, RN · Dec 12, 2004

.....................We need to empower ourselves.

Hmmm:idea:....the day nurses actually stand up and EMPOWER ourselves will be the day hospital ceos and other vips over hospitals and healthcare become frantic enough to FINALLY shut up and listen to nurses about how to REALLY operate a hospital, retain nursing staff, lower patient/nurse ratios to SAFE levels, AND..........shall I go on?????????????????? :uhoh21: :lol2:

mattsmom81 · Dec 12, 2004

I agree Renee...if we would all stick together and speak as one clear voice we would accomplish soooo much. We have little power now and things are likely not going to change until we seize that power enmasse.

But...how do we get there? How do we start? Will BSN entry help? Maybe. But what will we do with the good RN's currently in the trenches...nurses from AD and diploma backgrounds? Hopefully grandfather them as Canada has done...but what a kick in the teeth if they are simply discarded if unable to return to college by mandate.

I know we've been down this discussion road before and some here tire of the debate.

VizslaMom · Dec 12, 2004

But...how do we get there? How do we start? Will BSN entry help? Maybe.

Um, I don't think so. My mom is a Physical Therapist. PT's thought the same thing that many RN's do now...that higher educational requirements will improve the field. This didn't happen. They currently require a Master's level education to become a PT. My mom thinks they over-educated themselves out of many good jobs. Now, there are fewer PT's employed and more PT Assistants employed as a result. I also found the median salary listed on a website for PT's to be $52,000.00/year. Isn't that what many RN's (regardless of educational background) could make anyway? With a required Master's Degree I would certainly expect a higher salary.

As far as RESPECT is concerned with higher educational requirements, well...I wouldn't hold my breath. It will take a lot more than a few extra classes to secure the respect that our profession needs. My mom refuses to work in another hospital because lack of respect for PT's still exists.

http://physicaltherapist.com/visitorfaq.php#5

kjt2004 · Dec 12, 2004

My sister is a PT and most agencies pay her at least $50-$65/hr. Most agencies in NYC pay RNS $30-$45/hr. My sister is able to practice indendently and bill the insurance company for her services, if she would like.

Comparing us to PTs is like comparing apples to oranges.

As for their level of education, it does count for something. they have more autonomy than we do. They can open their own practice if they wanted to.

Increasing their educational requirement to MSN- well it's supply and demand. There might not be as great a demand for PTs. I would bet you if there ever became a crisis (PT shortage) that requirement would be decreased.

Getting your BSN makes you a well rounded person. You are able to explore other aspects of nursing ie.nursing research, management, etc.

How do you expect to be respected when the nutritionist, social worker and others have their MSN.Then here come the RNs with their ADNs and diplomas. That does not look good in their eyes and many resent us for getting paid more than them.

Some MDs think we just have 1 year training after HS. they sure do look at you in a different light when they realize you went to college , have a BSN, and might have taken some of the courses they did.

Knoledge equal power and there is no way around that.

It is up to you as an individual RN to assert yourself and demand the respect you deserve.

Getting your BSN will not fix the problem, but it is a start. You should also know your hospital policies, attend conferences, know your contract if you have one, etc.

Trust me, you will less likely tolerate crap from other profressionals and management if you empower yourself. Know what is going on in the world of nursing and be politically active. Too many nurses just want to work, collect a check and go home.

Me i want to make a differnce in this profession. I will not tolerate being walked on or over.

The power is also in numbers. You must get together with your colleagues to fight the uphill battle. Keep them informed. Don't keep the info for yourself.

A man is not an island.

Umtherer , I don't think so. My mom is a Physical Therapist. PT's thought the scrap ame thing that many RN's do now...that higher educational requirements will improve the field. This didn't happen. They currently require a Master's level education to become a PT. My mom thinks they over-educated themselves out of many good jobs. Now, there are fewer PT's employed and more PT Assistants employed as a result. I also found the median salary listed on a website for PT's to be $52,000.00/year. Isn't that what many RN's (regardless of educational background) could make anyway? With a required Master's Degree I would certainly expect a higher salary.
As far as RESPECT is concerned with higher educational requirements, well...I wouldn't hold my breath. It will take a lot more than a few extra classes to secure the respect that our profession needs. My mom refuses to work in another hospital because lack of respect for PT's still exists.
http://physicaltherapist.com/visitorfaq.php#5

Nurse212 · Dec 19, 2004

Bump

RN34TX · Dec 19, 2004

Getting your BSN makes you a well rounded person. You are able to explore other aspects of nursing ie.nursing research, management, etc.
How do you expect to be respected when the nutritionist, social worker and others have their MSN.Then here come the RNs with their ADNs and diplomas. That does not look good in their eyes and many resent us for getting paid more than them.
Some MDs think we just have 1 year training after HS. they sure do look at you in a different light when they realize you went to college , have a BSN, and might have taken some of the courses they did.
.

I agree that a BSN is a positive thing and helps you to explore other areas of nursing.

But as far as the social workers and other disciplines who look down on non-BSN nurses and resent us for making more money than them....too bad!!

I'm sure that no one forced them to choose a non-nursing degree in college and the last time I checked, none of them have to clean up body fluids to earn a paycheck.

As far as MD's go, I've met maybe 2 in my 7 years of nursing that are even remotely aware that different levels of nursing education even exist. Most think that there are nurses and aides, period. Nothing more.

I guess I'll find out firsthand when I finally do get my BSN but from what I can see now, the BSN's get just as disrespected and abused by MD's as the ADN's and LPN's do for that matter.

I have yet to see one instance when BSN on a nametag commanded respect for and shielded disrespect and abuse from an MD, patient, or their family member.

And getting rid of ADN's, diploma RN's, and LPN's altogether? Talk about your perfect example of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Knowledge is power and degrees can only help better oneself but the mandatory BSN requirement is by far the small bandaid on the gaping wound of nursing's problems.

Shame on New York.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Dec 19, 2004

I read an article about it. I believe that the powers that be are pushing for it. The plan is to grandfather in current RNs without their BSNs and new ADN grads will have 10 years to complete their BSN.
I think it is a wonderful idea. We need to empower ourselves.

And NY is empowering themselves right out of having adequate staff.

THere is a serious shortage of RNs... any RNs...willing to work in NYC. Lets just limit it to those with a Bachelor's degree and watch them drown in a sea of understaffing.

Snoopd · Dec 19, 2004

This is a relevent topic for nurses at all educational levels. I think the degree "requirements" being proposed by some legislators have more to do with image (and who is backing them? Hospitals of course) than the skill level of the trade. ADN programs and BSN programs are virtually identical in their core nursing education. The BSN programs vary a little, but most have an additional course in statistics, maybe a nutrition course, a harder chemistry, and maybe two additional "nursing theory" courses. A couple of extra "embelishments" but the "meat and potatos" of how to become a rookie nurse are identical. The MSN programs add more theory courses and a little bit of "management". What's the reward for that extra BSN? Maybe a buck more an hour, for the MSN maybe another buck an hour. That's how much hospitals think of the extra education. The proof is in the pay, and the hospital chains don't care enough to pay. Of course they can use your education to promote themselves - use it as a marketing tool, but in their eyes, and most MD's eyes, and the public's eye, a nurse is a nurse is a nurse - nobody cares (except the nurses who have worked so hard) what kind of "alphabet" you have behind your name - BSN, MSN, CCRN, blah, blah, blah. They want you to be educated, of course, so they can use that to their advantage, but are not willing to reward you in a significant way. The issue of education is becoming worse in my opinion. There are to many nursing programs, and with the advent of online degrees, the educational problem is becoming even worse . What is happening is that the "market" is being flooded with thousands of new, "more highly educated" (who have no work experience) nurses, and this will lead to lower pay and lower respect for new RN's regardless of degree. There are 125 medical schools in the US and they consistantly average about 16,500 graduates a year. When was the last time you heard of an MD shortage in the US? Never. They are selective, choose the best candidates, keep the quality high, and "turn out" a limited number of graduates a year. You don't see online MD programs springing up like weeds. Thus, they can command high salaries and professional respect and have the power to control their compensation. The AMA isn't crying about an MD shortage, why should they? All that would do is flood the market with new MDs and they would earn less. The "nursing shortage" is a ploy to attract new people to the profession and lower pay scales. Hospitals don't care about your level of education (except to use it as a marketing tool), they want a cheaper employee. If nurses want their future BSN or MSN to have any status, they need to have more political clout and get laws passed that are favorable to nurses - and not just staffing ratios- but greater autonomy in patient care and in what "skills" and procedures they are allowed to perform, as well as how future nurses will be educated and how many will be graduated each year. We need to focus more on the politics of our profession if we want it to be respected and financially rewarding. Having a "caring nirturing attitude" and being "a well rounded people person" are not enough, neither is having a bunch of abbreviations behind your name that only you and your colleagues value.

I agree that a BSN is a positive thing and helps you to explore other areas of nursing.
But as far as the social workers and other disciplines who look down on non-BSN nurses and resent us for making more money than them....too bad!!
I'm sure that no one forced them to choose a non-nursing degree in college and the last time I checked, none of them have to clean up body fluids to earn a paycheck.
As far as MD's go, I've met maybe 2 in my 7 years of nursing that are even remotely aware that different levels of nursing education even exist. Most think that there are nurses and aides, period. Nothing more.
I guess I'll find out firsthand when I finally do get my BSN but from what I can see now, the BSN's get just as disrespected and abused by MD's as the ADN's and LPN's do for that matter.
I have yet to see one instance when BSN on a nametag commanded respect for and shielded disrespect and abuse from an MD, patient, or their family member.
And getting rid of ADN's, diploma RN's, and LPN's altogether? Talk about your perfect example of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Knowledge is power and degrees can only help better oneself but the mandatory BSN requirement is by far the small bandaid on the gaping wound of nursing's problems.
Shame on New York.

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Dec 19, 2004

We need to empower ourselves

Believe me, there's only one reason nurses get no respect, and only one way to empower ourselves--figure out how to prove to the employers that we MAKE THEM MONEY.

Nurses have too long been going in the wrong direction based on their own feelings of worthlessness. Every single time I've seen a nurse admit that she didn't know something, she'd promptly get more education and brainwash other nurses into thinking that more education is always the answer to getting more respect.

Not in the business world, it's not. The hospitals know that DOCTORS bring in patients, not nurses, so they'll kowtow to those doctors. If nurses could bring in money, and not be seen as an expense of the organization, then nurses would be sure to be wooed by those facilities. As it is now, we're only holding our own by proving to the hospitals that nurses save lives, and therefore are necessary. But we really need to do more in the area of promoting our value in dollar-and-cents terms. Or go to independent practice.

Until then, we're just cogs in the wheel, baby.

We need to focus more on the politics of our profession if we want it to be respected and financially rewarding.

Exactly. And you know, it's always ALL about the money. Because nurses have traditionally been so anti-money, nurses have opted themselves out of the power structure.

But there's a way in there, somewhere. And I don't believe we have to compromise patient safety to get there and stay there. Maybe nurses need to start their own facilities, or their own health-care organizations.

RN34TX · Dec 19, 2004

.....nobody cares (except the nurses who have worked so hard) what kind of "alphabet" you have behind your name - BSN, MSN, CCRN, blah, blah, blah. They want you to be educated, of course, so they can use that to their advantage, but are not willing to reward you in a significant way....... Having a "caring nirturing attitude" and being "a well rounded people person" are not enough, neither is having a bunch of abbreviations behind your name that only you and your colleagues value.

But even we as nurses often don't value these titles behind our names. Look at how LPN/LVN's often look at RN's and how ADN's often look at BSN's. What do they all have in common?

They all say the same thing: "I do the same thing that you do and often do it just as well if not better so big deal that you have more education than I have."

Hospitals certainly do not offer much reward for attaining more education. I have no desire to become a manager of any sort and currently my hospital offers a whopping $1.00/hour for anyone getting their BSN or passing the CCRN exam.

I'm so glad that I'm going to school for another 2 years to get an extra $12 for every 12 hour shift I put in.