Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Feb 5, 2007

If my entire profile is important here it is. My profile BS Biology with a minor in biochem. with graduate work in Biochemistry, retired officer USN, 10 years teaching experience in public schools in Chemistry and currently a career changer.
Yes I am a BSN student and will graduate this summer. You have also missed the point. Experience gains an individual competence and respect of your peers. I agree. However, to elevate the profession in the eyes of our colleagues we must elevate the standards to enter into the profession.

I haven't missed the point. I marginally agree with THIS comment.

But, it is a far different comment then your last comment, to wit: getting a BSN provides you with the means to 'understand and collaborate' with your peers that other programs don't. That's your program propaganda speaking. As I said, with experience, you'll see that this 'debate' carries almost no weight in the trenches, once the concept of 'minimum entry' is in your rearview mirror of experience.

I agree in a slow transition to BSN. I think this will only be possible when all RN stakeholders are not only principally on board, but have their interests protected. Comments that reinforce "My degree is better than yours" will not take us there.

It's been tried for 40 yrs without success.

~faith,

Timothy.

lauralassie · Feb 5, 2007

i have been following this discussion and this is the most intersting post i have come accross.
i am currently a second semester sophmore in the bachelor of science in nursing program at university of san francisco.
i agree with you. the nurse leadership (i.e. management) course as well as the nursing reseach and pre-requisite intorductory statistics course certainly don't qualify one for a management postion.
most of the hospitals here in the san francisco bay area (i'm sure hospitals elsewhere, through out the country have different standards) will not hire a nurse who simply has his/her bsn for a management post. they require a msn in healthcare administration or nursing informatics, etc.
i find it rather odd though that foreign nurses are indeed required to have a bsn in order to apply for an h1 visa, allowing them to work in the united states. so, in that instance, many if not all foreign nurses working here as your colleagues will have a more education than you as an adn or diploma nurse (i am not talking about you directly as i don't know your level of education).
the fact is that most of the industrialized world requires nurses to have a baccalaureate degree, and yes...even the phillippinnes--which, by the way, has a curriculum very similar to the united states (being a former colony) and therefore sends over the highest number.
adn nurses may see nursing theory as not readily being useful in their daily practice as a bedside/floor nurse, but it is theoretical/conceptual/philosophical coursework like this that distinguishes a technician (someone who can perform routine clinical work...ng's, vitals, charting, etc.) from a professional.
talk to any physician and ask them if they have read dante, shakespeare, or are able to make a powerpoint presentation, conduct preliminary research, etc. they will answer yes and many adn nurses will answer no. ( i know that sounds very elitist, but really folks...)
and then the adn nurses will ask what the heck does knowing all that have to do with nursing and the answer is everything. everything you study in life will not always have a direct connection to the actual work of your chosen career. but the education you acquired does count and i promise you that you will find yourself drawing upon it without thinking at times, finding abstractions that help clarify gray areas in your practice.
this is the purpose of a liberal arts and sciences education. it equips you to better understand the world in which you will work. this is essential to any person choosing to "profess" (this is where the term "professional"originates) a particular line of work.
it's time to raise the bar and require the minimal level of education needed to truly call oneself a "professional," which is namely the bsn.
let's clear something up. the nclex represents the minimum standards required of a nurse to practice in a particular state. the fact the adn and bsn nurses both take and pass the same exam, says nothing about their level of education. passing the nclex ensures the state that you are able to practice sufficiently enough and won't kill someone. many bsn programs require their students to pass their own examination before graduating, which is usually much broader in scope and harder than the nclex. at my school, usf, this is called the hesii exam.
while we are discussing the possibility of raising the educational attainment up from the associate of science degree in nursing to the bachelor of science in nursing, we should begin the process of moving all of the graduate advanced clinical specialties (nurse anesthetists, nurse practioners, nurse midwives, and clinical nurse specialists) up from master degrees to clinical or practice doctorates. this has already been proposed by the aacn (american association of colleges of nursing) and is slated to begin the phase out period in 2015. eight schools of nursing already offer the dnp or drnp (doctor of nursing practice) and the nd (doctor of nursing--slated to be phased out in favor of the dnp/drnp). this doctorate would represent the highest level of practice in nursing and would differ from the research based phd or dns/dnsc currently offered to apn's (advanced practice nurses). finally nursing would mirror the rest of the allied health professions who have already made the move to the clinical/practice doctorate such as physical therapists (dpt), audiologists (aud), pharmacists (pharmd), and of course, the oldest among healthcare next to nurses, physicians (md/do).
another note about nursing not garnering enough respect due to being a female dominated profession. this is true as teachers, secretaries, homemakers, receptionists, flight attendants, and other fields passed off as "womens work" don't recieve much respect either. the number one reason nursing has a hard time recruiting men into the field (actually into any of the above refrenced fields for that matter) is because of the pay. most men can get over the sexist stigma of performing women's work if they are paid adequately (i don't speak for all). but nurses aren't compensated fairly and really don't fight for more. studies have shown time and again that women are more prone to accept less pay in order to seem modest and conform with the sterotypical role of a female (this is internalized from all the years of istitutionalized sexism). this precisley the reason why nurse anesthetists (45% men--and you wonder where are all the men in nursing?!) earn salaries well into the upper hundred thousands and lower two hundred thousands--because men demand adequate compensation and aren't afraid to fight for it. of course, we don't have to deal with centuries of internalized genderization, but this is why nurses, and all female dominated fields have temendous issues with public respect and adequate pay.
times are changing and more and more women are fearlessly and boldly stepping up to the plate, but not enough to turn the tides in nursing. not yet.
the bsn and dnp are a good starting place.
i'm courious, when you talk about tech skills, what do you mean. if you think taking charge of a room full of rn's and emt's during a level 1 trauma or opening a chest and doing the pocedures by yourself because the dr. is busy trying to get the heart going, and has total trust in you to hang the correct gtt's and give meds and being able to coralate pt status, staff flow monitors, labs and so on technical skills then , bring it on. i'v done research, cqi, nursing education all with a diploma of nursing. can you do mine? i always love to get nurses who think bed side nursing is a tech skill in the er or icu. see how fast they stand back and let the real nurses work. i can give a lecture to many people on research topics and stand my ground with hospital medical admin, and not feel my deodorant kick in. in fact, you ask trauma dr's or cardiac thora. dr's who they would rather have at the bed side. heck , ask the pt who they would rather have at the bed side. bet it's not the high payed nurse who has gone to school after school after school. and imagine, me a lowley little diploma nurse able to do your job. (and do it well i might add). if you consider tech skills as low pay jobs
then you better inform mr. gates that he needs to step down from the computer buisness and let some one else do the job before he looses money. or how-a-bout fighter jet pilots. there job is about as technical as you can get. talk about multitasking. guess they should re think their job as well. so to sum it up , please do tell, what do you consider a "task". besides, it may be helpful to know what your talking about before you speak. most of these degrees do get therory. i hope shakespear comes in handy when your standing beside me in er. we can always tell the pt 's family ,"sorry about your loss, but if you sit down we'll read from mid summer nights dream for you. i'm sure you'll feel better. oh,,and by-the-way, the pt . the hospital the pt's family and other nurses is our world.

lauralassie · Feb 5, 2007

I really find it hard to believe nurses are fighting tooth and nail to keep their education at the Associate Degree level!! It is mind boggeling!! It's like your'e all proud to be on the bottom rung of health care, because that is truly where you/we will be and remain if your/our stubborn ignorance towards higher education continues, as it has for the past 30 some years.
This is about the future of nursing. Don't short change yourselves! As I said earlier, the rest of the world understands that nurses need four years of education. Why doesn't America get it yet?!
Education = Power.....PERIOD
You want higher pay, more prestige and respect from your colleagues and the public, you want more men in nursing......the answer is simple, more education!!!
Mandatory BSN for all nurses NOW!!!

I'm all for higher education as long as that education actually improves the profession of nursing. The bottom line in any medical fieild is pt outcomes. Pt out come is how the public bases their judgement. Until we improve on this and can provide the care that pt's are due then it doesn't matter how much research we can impress people by, or how well we can present a power point presentation to a auditorium full of people that are most likley there for the food and CEU's any way. So far, I havn't seen empowerment from new 4 year grads, mostley I see confusion and frustration. Why does higher education have to equate to moving away from the pt. We need higher education to improve nurse preformance and make nurses capable of thinking on their feet during stressful situations . All the while caring for the pt. in a way that can help to improve the outcome . That sort of nursing will improve our view from the public. Why can't higher education consist of critical thinking and being able to think like a physician at the bed side.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 5, 2007

lauralassie, it sounds like a nerve was definately struck and I appreciate that. Note that the people you've quoted made their posts in 2005, so you may not hear back.

The bold type and underlined sounds like yelling and anger and isn't very conducive to good discussion in my opinion. But you're entitled to feel however you feel.

Carry on.

lauralassie · Feb 5, 2007

lauralassie, it sounds like a nerve was definately struck and I appreciate that. Note that the people you've quoted made their posts in 2005, so you may not hear back.
The bold type and underlined sounds like yelling and anger and isn't very conducive to good discussion in my opinion. But you're entitled to feel however you feel.
Carry on.

Yes, your right, it did look like yelling , actually all I wanted to do was highlight it, but, I have this new lap top that is doing all kinds of things I can't seem to correct without erasing everyting I already wrote. So, I left it. But I always enjoy things you have to say. Many times things you say are well said and funny .Many times when I've had a bad day , I can count on your post to give me a little giggle or up lift me. Thank you for that.:cheers: If I were to be honest, I probably ment it to be strongly said. I feel the statements of the student were way out of line for some one who had not graduated from nursing school yet. Besides, I know more female crna's, pa's and NP's than male. I really hope this, I'm assuming from the comments, is a male, had a big surprise when he got out. I know a few nurses that would love to be a preceptor of someone with these view points. (I am a very tolerant preceptor, I love to teach new grads, precepting is the highlight of my day-but, boy , I may not find myself so pt with this person, if any of these comments were made to me while on the job)

I'm pretty sure this person is still loging on at times. :cool: :sofahider

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 5, 2007

I agree with Tweety. No need to shout or yell to get a point across. This is a heated debate at times, and all sides have good points. Like our own Miranda says, we can disagree without being disagreeable. Let's keep things cool here, and it will be more likely our voices will be heard.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 5, 2007

Thanks Laura for the nice compliments. I appreciate that.

You make some valid points for the opposite side of the debate from this person, (remember we debate the topic and not the person), and there's nothing wrong with that.

When discussing something that we feel strong about, or that makes us angry, we have to watch our tone if we are to engaged in meanful discussion, and the underlined bold and the challenging tone of the overall post might be a turnoff, or might invite anger and yelling in return. Just being honest and real. Thanks for understanding.

Again, your opinions are valid and real and I don't want you to feel you can't express them, in fact I encourage you to. I encourage that with everyone which is why I'm making this ost public.

We can move on now. :)

lauralassie · Feb 6, 2007

You should read the response to tweety you'll understand.

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 7, 2007

I do indeed understand.

Enjoy the thread.

SecondGenRN · Feb 7, 2007

Hello:)

I am currently in my second year of the BSN program. I live in Ontario and it is now required here to have a BSN. My instructors tell me that the BSN program better prepares students to be professionals, but it seems to me that there is far more emphasis on writing papres etc than on learning the skills I will need to succeed in my career. My question is this, what am I gaining by taking my BSN? Does anyone have an opinion either way on which program better prepares a student for 'hands on' nursing (I want to work with PATIENTS in a HOSPITAL)

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 7, 2007

Hello:)
I am currently in my second year of the BSN program. I live in Ontario and it is now required here to have a BSN. My instructors tell me that the BSN program better prepares students to be professionals, but it seems to me that there is far more emphasis on writing papres etc than on learning the skills I will need to succeed in my career. My question is this, what am I gaining by taking my BSN? Does anyone have an opinion either way on which program better prepares a student for 'hands on' nursing (I want to work with PATIENTS in a HOSPITAL)

I can only tell you that here in Florida the ADN schools and the BSN schools both have the same number of clinical hours for "hands on", so neither is more superior than the other. It used to be true that the ADNs got more time clinically than BSNs, but that is no longer true and hasn't been true in a long time but the myth remains.

There are no Diploma programs here, but my understanding is that they have much more clnical time than them all.

I would just make the best of your current situation. Remember there is going to be some orientation time in the hospital as well. People in Ontario seem to become fine nurses (I've worked with many here in Florida who came here looking for jobs) and you will too.

serousanguineous · Feb 7, 2007

*sigh* another sign that I should go back to school to get my BSN. :bugeyes: