Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

waterbabies · Nov 7, 2006

We can appreciate the nurses who have pursued higher credentials and the important contributions they are making to nursing in their areas of expertise, however BSN or higher is not necessary to provide competent nursing care. (I've heard a nurse educator (PhD) seriously propose that a 7 year masters degree be the minimum entry level requirement to take temperatures and pass bedpans. Not joking.)

The fact is, we need more nurses, from whatever RN education programs, who pass the NCLEX-RN, and we need them giving direct patient care.

Restricting access to RN education would simply eliminate many from considering nursing as a career. Not everyone pursuing a career as a RN is straight out of high school. Many of us went into nursing as a second career. I would not have considered nursing, if I had to go to college for a BSN, so healthcare would have been without my contributions for the past 25 years. Plain and simple.

I do continue my education, as necessary, to stay up to date in my area of practice. Annual mandatory CEU's, that update nurses in general, on critical, real and present changes in practice, would be good for the profession. A vague requirement for CEU's that can include off-the-wall theories, only allows charlatans to exploit the CEU requirement.

In all of the discussions about BSN minimum requirement that I have seen over the years, I have never seen anyone apply the nursing process to the problem.

What is the problem?

An excess of something?

A lack of something?

A danger of something?

As professional nurses, do we set unrealistic goals for out patients?

Why set unrealistic goals for our profession?

One of the big arguments for the BSN minimum requirement is the "critical thinking" skills that are gained the BSN program, yet I have not heard any of those masterful, critical thinkers come up with an argument for the BSN minimum requirement that is anything other than pure speculation. The only real benefit I see, is for those in ivory towers, who are vested in the provision of advanced degrees.

Like I wrote at the top. There are some nurses who can accomplish a lot by pursuing an advanced degree, but those of us in the trenches are doing fine without one, and a minimum requirement of BSN would be disastrous for healthcare.

Blessings,

waterbabies

subee, MSN, CRNA · Nov 7, 2006

I am an RN with my Associates Degree, and I have been seriously thinking about going for my Bachelors RN. I can honestly say it has nothing to do with me being able to give my patients better care if I get my BSN, it would be to benefit me in the future for managing positions. No one who has posted on here has mentioned the most important people that would be affected here ( The Patients ) !!!!!!!! You know, the people who are the reason we nurses have jobs ! I think a bachelors degree would be awesome, but just not mandatory. Maybe if they offered more pay for it you would have more students going straight for the BSN instead of the ADRN. And I don't mean 50 cents to 1.00 dollar more either. Lets try maybe $10-15 dollars more an hour for having a BSN .....I would be 1st in line. .....But seriously.....priority is to the patients and they are more concerned about having someone who can safely take care of them ( passing boards is suppose to qualify a nurse for that ). For those who have BSN's or ADRN's congrats for all the hard work you have done to get where you are! Oh and one more thing......there was definately nothing fast-track about the ADRN program I graduated from, my program required a minimum grade of 78 for passing, and some BSN schools I know of has a 70-72 for passing.........God Bless
SMARTY_RN

Getting a position in management is far from the only thing you can do with a BSN. A lot of nurses with BSN and MSN are TAKING CARE OF PATIENTS.

Some bedside positions actually require BSN's in large urban areas. IMHO the large bulk of course work for BSN could be done on line with nurses coming on campus a couple of weeks per year. Remember there is no nursing shortage - just nurses who don't want to work in hospitals that don't give them the time for patient care.

emrrn915 · Nov 7, 2006

I am just wondering about pay? If all nurses become BSNs I understand that we will all be considered "professionals" by some. I actually consider myself to be a professional now but that is my personal opinion.

I highly doubt that if all nurses become BSNs we will see a significant increase in pay/ a significant decrease in patient load. Since nurses make up the masses as far as workers in most healthcare settings how will the hospitals afford to bump up hundreds and hundreds of salaries? The last published article about our hospitals here indicated that out of 3 medical centers only one is in the black. I can only assume this is due to the fact of low reimbursement and lack of insurance amongst the general population. If we are all forced to obtain the BSN, nothing will change, in my opinion. The nurses will still make up the masses and they will be paid the same. The "elite" jobs which now only BSNs are qualified to hold will probably also pay less since every nurse will have the BSN and it will be no big deal.

If the issue is forced I would pursue the BSN. I had always anticipated doing so but throughout my career I have not had the need to do it. I have held quite a few non traditional nursing roles and really any extra education that I have pursued has been specific to my position so that I can do the best and have better knowledge of what I am currently doing.

I hate the argument and I don't see how it is going to change anything as I said. Do patients and the general public hold the BSN nurse in a higher regard?? We will still be seen as a nurse is a nurse is a nurse we will just all have a BSN

If we truly want to be seen as top notch professionals then they need to make the entry requirement Masters level. Master's education seems to invoke a lot of respect but for a variety of reasons that is completely unreasonable and unecessary..

West_Coast_Ken, BSN, RN · Nov 7, 2006

Oh! And where would all these RN's be getting their educations? There were over 300 applicants for 70 or so slots at our school last year. If we suddenly require all ADN's to go back to school, AND require that all new nurses be BSN's, where on earth are they going to go to school?

This idea of requiring a BSN would fail--even if the ADNs were grandfathered in because there are not enough BSN seats out there just for the new students.

This plan would fail miserably unless hundreds of millions were spent USA wide to: 1) shut down ADN programs 2) build new facilities to train only BSN students 3) hire the MSN & PhD trained faculty required to teach in a BSN program.

This is nuts on many, many levels. I'm not going to concern myself with this any longer. Nothing to worry about in the least. IMHO

AznMurse · Nov 7, 2006

I don't understand the rationale to an "upgrade". ADN/staff nurses would need to know bare minimum to practice safely...and they have been doing that well. I don't see the need to go to a BSN program unless I am thinking of becoming a teacher, a manager or other nursing position that requires extensive academic style writing and research. Please, I had enough of that in my BA. In my opinion:

staff nurse = ADN

middle management = BSN

Management = MSN

unless some can argue and prove with statistical trends that a significant amount of ADN class are prone to practice unsafely, there is no rationale that would make sense for an "upgrade"

Katnip, RN · Nov 7, 2006

I'm curious.

Are you sure the law doesn't grandfather current ADN nurses in.

Most laws that I've seen states considering this grandfather the ADNs in.

Then, NEW nurses may graduate with ADNs, and are given 10 years from that point on to obtain a BSN, which is usually subsidized by their employer.

I'd go back and check that carefully.

And please, don't let this thread become another ADN/BSN debate. Most healthcare professions require a Bachelor's degree and many require a master's. It's got nothing to do with who gives better care.

JoeyDog · Nov 7, 2006

This will never ever work even if they do grandfather in current ADN's. Hospitals think the nursing shortage is bad now wait until there are only universities with limited seats teaching a program that takes about 4 years to complete.

Does this really make sense? Would pateints really recieve better care from a BSN who (b/c of the elimination of ADN programs) has to have a patient load of 10!!?? Do patients even care if thier nurse has a BSN or an ADN??? Do they even know what the difference means, especially when it comes to clinical practice? Would the patients be able to tell a difference based on the care they recieve? The answer to all of these questions is (IMHO) NO!!!

I thought the country began the ADN program as a means to create qualified nurses in a shorter ammount of time. Why now are they no longer qualified? ADN and BSN alike take the same NCLEX.

I am a pre-nursing student who will be applying to an ADN program in a few short months. I am not worried about being forced out of my (future) job b/c I chose not to get a BSN instead.

This proposal will never happen. 'Nuff said.

Happy2Beme · Nov 9, 2006

This has been an Urban Legend in nursing since I graduated 26 years ago.
Perhaps NM is considering it now, but this is an old,old idea that never ends up coming to fruition.

:rotfl:Urban legend LOL:rotfl:

That's about right.

Yep, when I started the ADN program in '79, that was the propaganda, and they were saying they wanted it by 1984:rotfl:

RIIIGGGHHHTTTT!!!!!

Or local hospital has to import nurses from Canada and PhillIpines, because nobody around here will even work there,

Diploma, ADN or BSN.

fuegorama · Nov 9, 2006

My state is considering making a requirement that ADN's earn their BSN within 10y or have license revoked or suspended.

Why?

Can anyone give a cogent answer as to what benefit this will have on healthcare?

decartes · Nov 9, 2006

I am currently an Accelerated BSN student and just like the masses in allnurses.com, I wondered what the difference was. These days, I'm sure we're hearing a lot about "evidence based practice." Unfortunately, the ADN course does not prepare nurses with sound literature research skills. Apparently, studies have been conducted regarding the use of EBP vs. peer transferred interventions and EBP resulted in more favorable outcomes. The research skill, which a BSN track provides, is "supposed" to enable us to more effectively review and critique the latest research and apply them into practice. I guess it also ties into all the legal stuff that nurses are subjected to if a patient decides to sue somebody.

In my little experience so far, it seems that nursing care is largely intuitive. In having research supporting your care, it would be more difficult for anyone to pick on you if your interventions are supported by research.

I hope this helps.

mtdnk · Nov 9, 2006

I think the link provided is an excellent place to begin your research of why the concept to require FUTURE professional nurses to earn a Bachelor's degree within 10 years of their initial licensure.

Please do note that this is a proactive measure, meaning that those who are already licensed, or already students in a nursing program would be exempt.

I do realize that it can be a blow to one's ego when a comparison is done between an ADN and BSN program, but it pays us as a PROFESSION to not take things personally, and to unite in promoting our position in the healthcare industry.

This call is to establsh a consistent entry level for the nursing profession. Several current studies report that facilities in which a higher proportion of direct-care (not management!) RN's held BSN, had lower mortality rates. There are many valid articles that discuss the various pros of the nursing educational debate, way to many to post on this forum.

It is experience and hands on training that will give you the edge, not a BSN 20 or 30 years ago.

I don't really think this comment is relevant. A degree is never the end of anything, usually a beginning. It is the skills you learn in and by obtaining a colege education that also perfect with time and allow for continued learning in practice (AKA "an edge"). A BSN includes not only more liberal arts (with a focus in ethics and the humanities) but also advanced sciences. Community health nursing, research and leadership are generally components of the BSN programs (leadership does not equal "management" for this discussion). Critical thinking, health teaching, leadership and professinalism are essential components of the BSN curriculum, and (despite the probable personalizations which will occur) most AD educators are less apt to include these concepts in their curriculm.

FYI: 2006 NCLEX pass rates https://www.ncsbn.org/Table_of_Pass_Rates_2006.pdf

More independent scope of practice?
No, as both ADN's and BSN's all practice under the same licensure level.

As do MSN's (at least in New York). The suggestion for a BSN entry level is not new (by a long shot!). The most important action one can take is to do your research before you decide something isn't good. There are many issues regarding nursing that are currently under scrutiny, the BSN debate is only one.

There are many articles available that give various positions about the nursing education debate, too many to list all the pros and cons on this forum.

I have seen many good reasons to pursue one's education, none that support stagnation.

chestrockwell · Nov 10, 2006

What about all the nurses that have previous bachelor's degrees and later went back to get an ADN? Why should they need a BSN?