Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

ragingmomster, BSN, MSN, RN · Oct 29, 2006

Never Happen.

Logistics alone will keep it from happening.

Where will they find slots in schools for the ADN's who do go back to school?

We don't have enough nurses because we don't have enough educators right now.

Maybe if they tried this 15-20 years ago they would have gotten it through.

collegemomrn · Oct 29, 2006

I think that there has been a history in nursing to make the BSN the professional nurse. The problem is the nurse shortage and can any state afford to diminish their number of nurses by inforcing a law requiring a BSN. I think it could cause a hardship on older nurses who just are not going to do it. They will retire first. I am 54 years old myself and doing the BSN thing right now. There is no threat of requirement here, I am doing it for me. I am too close to retirement to have someone force me to do something I don't want to do. Nurses may leave your state to practice elsewhere. It could be like what the young physicians are doing in PA because of the cost of malpractice insurance. I think the nurses in your state need to talk to your political leaders and tell them what you all are thinking of this new plan.

nell · Oct 29, 2006

Wow, if they tried that here, I'd be out the door.

I graduated in 1977 and none of my credits would count now. If I had to go through 4 more years of school, it wouldn't be nursing school.

minus another nurse and counting...

nell

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Oct 29, 2006

Some organization might have promoted the idea, and some state legislator may have given it lip service for votes, but no state is seriously considering this idea.

In fact, it was tried, in N. Dakota and after 10 yrs of effort, they barely got BSN to 50% and gave it up as a failure. And, every state knows that.

No state is going to lone ranger this idea again.

Without a national mandate, this issue is dead. The problem: your employers don't want to actually hand out the extra pay and respect that BSN entry would provide. So, the idea will always be out-lobbied by more powerful interests. N. Dakota was again a rare exception and the very failure of the idea in ND gives every other lobbyist primary evidence to point towards.

BSN will never happen by strong arm force of law. It will only happen if nurses themselves reach a consensus on the issue and push it for ourselves.

~faith,

Timothy.

gggggg · Oct 30, 2006

I work with lots of fabulous nurses that have associates degrees or diplomas; I have a BSN and learn from them every day. I also work with LPNs that I can say the same of. I think about 75% of the non-BSN nurses I work with would leave nursing before they would go back for an associates degree, so I definitely don't think any legislation on this should apply to currently practicing nurses.

Altra, BSN, RN · Oct 30, 2006

OP, do you have a link to the text of the proposal by the BON, or the bill before your legislature?

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Oct 31, 2006

idea making a comeback "better educated workforce"

new jersey division of consumer affairs board of nursing minutes new jersey state nurses association passed a resolution that would require that ... in nursing within ten years of completion of their entry level programs. ...

www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/nursing/minute/nur620.htm [/url]

aacn - media - impact of education on nursing practice fact sheet

new "bsn-in-10" proposals in new york and new jersey have been introduced by state nursing associations to require the baccalaureate degree for all registered nurses with 10 years of graduation from an entry-level rn program. other states are considering similar proposals in the interest of ensuring a better educated workforce. read aacn's support letters for the new york and new jersey initiatives.

www.aacn.nche.edu/media/factsheets/impactednp.htm - 51k

vastly different how healthcare "marketing experts" are viewing experience:

value innovation to win in healthcare (part 2 of 2)

to prepare for consumerism in healthcare, leaders must transform business models, operations, services and markets, note contributors ..

value innovation to win

while a consumer-as-purchaser environment represents a threat to the status quo, value innovation represents unmatched opportunities for the forward thinking health system. as health leaders approach the subject of value innovation, they should do so with the following in mind:

healthcare is over-qualified. highly skilled clinicians treat the simplest of problems.

healthcare is overly complicated and fraught with barriers. complex processes and problems frustrate consumers and add costs.

healthcare protects the status quo. healthcare is resistant to change and adverse to innovations that are valued by consumers; long-established organizations often are entrenched with a "we know what is best" attitude.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Oct 31, 2006

idea making a comeback "better educated workforce"
new jersey division of consumer affairs board of nursing minutes new jersey state nurses association passed a resolution that would require that ... in nursing within ten years of completion of their entry level programs. ...
www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/nursing/minute/nur620.htm [/url]

aacn - media - impact of education on nursing practice fact sheet
new "bsn-in-10" proposals in new york and new jersey have been introduced by state nursing associations to require the baccalaureate degree for all registered nurses with 10 years of graduation from an entry-level rn program. other states are considering similar proposals in the interest of ensuring a better educated workforce. read aacn's support letters for the new york and new jersey initiatives.
www.aacn.nche.edu/media/factsheets/impactednp.htm - 51k

vastly different how healthcare "marketing experts" are viewing experience:

value innovation to win in healthcare (part 2 of 2)
to prepare for consumerism in healthcare, leaders must transform business models, operations, services and markets, note contributors ..

the nj proposition is by a student organization, hardly a legislative feat.

the ny proposition died unvoted on in both houses. bills that don't receive either debate or vote are generally doa issues promoted by legislators to give lip service to an idea.

i'm not against bsn entry, but the lobbyists against it are simply more powerful. the only power strong enough to overcome the biases against this idea are nurses themselves.

that will take a consensus. and a consensus will have to be about bringing us all along and not putting some of us down. the ana has never retracted their 'technical' insult from 1965. the place to start a real discussion on bsn entry is right there.

otherwise, we've learned nothing in 40 yrs. the only way to break a fundamentally polarized impasse is to unpolarize the issue. that should be evident by now.

~faith,

timothy.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Oct 31, 2006

The NY proposition died unvoted on in both houses. Bills that don't receive either debate or vote are generally DOA issues promoted by legislators to give lip service to an idea.

Bills are started too to "test the waters" for an idea, see what opposing sides point of view is, restructure legislation, and resubmit during next legislative session with goal of passage. Grass roots lobbying and support key organizations/stakeholders often key ...sometimes works, other times bill still defeated.

Remember the pen is often mightier than the sword.

Snuffy · Oct 31, 2006

I myself am a BSN educated RN, and I think this idea, although sounding great in theory, is an impossibility until some major changes take place.

The fact is, as was previously stated, ADNs far outnumber BSNs. If ADNs were grandfathered in I would be more in support of this idea. I understand and support having a standardized nursing education, but I do agree that having a BSN does not neccesarily make one a better nurse.

I received a lot of nursing theory and research education in my BSN program, which was great, but I honestly wish I'd had more clinical experience. I think the Diploma RNs (trained with huge amounts of clinical hours as well as class time) are fabulous. :saint: As a new grad I was preceptored by a diploma RN, and I learned an enormous amount.

The ANA has been debating this issue for years and has never been successful in selling the idea because many working in the profession don't even support it. :smackingf There has got to be a compromise in order to make this idea come to fruition, but I honestly don't see it happening.

nizhoni · Nov 1, 2006

From reading these posts it would appear that one thing that U.S. nursing programs would benefit from is increased standardization within the programs themselves. It is interesting to note earlier comments in this thread re: ASN programs. Some ASN programs utilize nursing theory models whereas others do not . . . some ASN programs require extensive writing (from care plans to process papers) and others do not . . . I'm confident that there is disparity between nursing education programs at every level. This may be one unexamined reason that we see this sort of endless debate regarding which type of program produces the "better" entry-level nurse.

I graduated from Brigham Young University in 1976 from an ASN program that was relatively new. As it was explained to us at the start of our program, the previous BYU BSN program had been collapsed into an ASN format and the BSN actually culminated in nurses qualifying as BSN-prepared nurse practitioners. (Of course, those days are gone!) Both the ASN and BSN programs were very tough and I believe the ASN students gained from our revamped BSN. I certainly received great value from learning to analyze and synthesize nursing theory with nursing practice. ASN programs that don't provide that sort of educational background would benefit the profession by adding it, IMO.

I have a good friend in my city who changed professional directions in her 40s. She is about to graduate next month from one of our local community college ASN programs. She had to mark time for a few years before beginning the program because of multiple city-wide waiting lists for the area ASN programs. She has also had to overcome tremendous obstacles in order to complete it. She has continued to work while being immersed in the nursing program and she is a single parent (a widow) with teens still at home. But beyond these problems she and her fellow students have also had to deal with institutional disorganization, including significant mid-stream policy changes, failure to notify the students of these changes in advance of the event(s), instructors who no-show for didactic and clinical classes, poor preceptorship supervision, etc. It is a testament to this graduating class that they have actually managed to endure all this to graduation. I honestly cannot recall that sort of problem when I attended my nursing program.

Perhaps we should work to clean up these kinds of preventable problems before we mandate the BSN for all.

Does anyone besides me recall a study published years ago by RN magazine about the results of nursing state board exams teased out by the type of nursing education program? Not surprising in the least, to me, was that the diploma nurses scored highest on their state boards. In second place were the ASN nurses, and the BSN nurses scored the lowest of the three. Now before anyone begins taking shots at me, let me note two things: yes, I am aware that all this was many years ago and also that this was pre-NCLEX. But I just really have to wonder about the profession's myopia with regard to nursing education. I think anyone on these boards who is old enough to know would agree that diploma nurses "back in the day" received an incredibly thorough grounding in patient care. By the time they were in their third year, these diploma nursing students were typically running the wards. So as long as we're revamping nursing education to mandate the BSN, how about providing the same level of intensive education that the older diploma programs mandated? We could add a year of additonal relevant study to create the BSN.

There is a fairly significant level of insecurity among new grads that really ought to be addressed by increased instruction and experience. Both my mother-in-law and my former midwifery partner graduated from hospital schools of nursing in the 1940s (Los Angeles General and a large New Jersey hospital, respectively). Neither one of them had any qualms about her ability to provide care or even run an entire nursing unit upon graduation, folks--and I must say these ladies are "good historians." I wish we had not discarded the diploma model without giving its strengths due consideration.

Education is a wonderful thing, but if you're after respect, ultimately it's competency that makes the difference. It's nice to have the letters behind your name and I'm actually going back to add to that "string" even though I'm 50+. But I also have MDs who regularly defer to my opinion even though I'm "just" an associate degree RN. They trust my judgment and my experience and don't seem to care a whit about my degree level. Yes, I do have times when I am disrespected, but it's invariably by docs or nurses who don't know me or have a realtionship with me. Generally we get it all worked out in short order. And frankly I'll never get Botox because all these crows feet just add to my credibility!:chuckle

mtdnk · Nov 5, 2006

For informational purposes, this is a link that will provide Talking Points provided by NYSNA (New York State Nurses Association) regarding the BSN debate:

http://www.nysna.org/programs/nai/legislative/points/2005/nursing_edu.htm

As LDC (Legislative District Coordinator), I have interviewed several of the NY Senate candidates, and enjoyed speeches by others during this election time. Most of the candidates are very supportive of the measure and express an understanding of the importance of a profession to enhance it's educational entry (example are teachers who must acheive master's within 5 years- of course their entry level is BS). There are many aspects of the proposal that require each individual to read, process and decide for themselves.

It does amaze me that the concept of a BSN is so misunderstood. Specializing at a baccalaureate level? Helps me to write papers? Doesn't have a benefit at my job? Ouch.