Is it OK to discipline nurses extra for calling in sick on a holiday?

Libby1987 · Jan 11, 2015

I've always heard that "mental health" days had nothing to do with mental illness.

I work with a few nurses that have chronic health problems and are legitimately home sick. It sucks because those of us who are healthy (and I'm just going to come out and say it, despite being lovely people, the difference in our self care is very evident, lifestyle choice is clearly part of it) have to pick up the slack so instead of being able to finish our work and go home and cook our kid a good meal, we're busting our butts. I wouldn't trade places ever, I'd rather be healthy and have to work harder, but I do wish my team was full of less sick prone nurses who could physically handle the work on a consistent basis.

On the positive side, we have generous staff who willingly cover the holidays. Holiday call out isn't an issue.

Career Columnist / Author · Jan 11, 2015

well written, thanks for sharing!

To be clear I was not referring to diagnosed mental illness. I was referring to a long day at work followed by an argument with my husband and 2 year old twins who decided that THIS will be the night they will not sleep. At around 3am you realize that you are liable to go to work and 1. Burst into tears 2. Treat your co workers like crap all day 3. Go off on the first patient that crosses you or even: 4. Walk out at lunch and never come back. This is the morning that I would call out, rest, and get my mind right before coming back in. This is not the same as the nurse who has an emergency every saturday she is supposed to work.

NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

In my opinion, someone should only call out when they are truly sick. This includes a holiday. Nursing is a 24/7 occupation and many jobs don't close down during the holidays, like working in a hospital or nursing facility. That being said, I do not feel that someone should be penalized EXTRA for getting sick on a specific day of the year. This past year I got a flu shot. It didn't work. I went to NY to visit my husbands mother and her new boyfriend. The next day while we were there he went to the doctor and was diagnosed with a positive flu test and he had received the shot. Well, on the fourth day when we were getting on the plane to go home my daughter and I developed a really high fever and a cough. I went to the doctor the next morning for a quick test and sure enough it was Influenza A. We both received Tamiflu and were told to stay at home for seven days so that we didn't give it to anyone. I worked for an ALF at the time and called them the day before I went to the doctor to give them a heads up that I may not be able to work that weekend which included Easter because I was getting sick and had been exposed but would know for sure what it was after I went to the doctor the next morning when I got home. I told them it was positive Friday morning and that the doctor said that I could return in a week when I would no longer be contagious. I received "how are you feeling? I still haven't found a replacement for your shift" call that evening, the following Saturday, and Easter. What part of "may return to work in 7 days, has Influenza A" did they not understand. I made sure that the doctor included the diagnosis on the return to work letter.

NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

And policies like this are why I have ended up at work, running a fever, coughing so hard I nearly vomit with the ER doc looking at me and asking "are you dying?! What's wrong?!". I was so sick that day I could barely make it through my shift, let alone give my poor patients the care they needed. But I was scared to call in and thought my charge nurse would recognize how sick I was and let me go home. Nope! He told me he was sorry but he couldn't afford to send me home. Nevermind the fact that I was lethargic and couldn't stop coughing. I could still take care of that neutropenic cancer patient!

I can totally relate. I made the same mistake one time and come to work nauseated and with a fever because I thought for sure they wouldn't want me around patient's and would allow me to go home. Nope! Didn't want to pay for an agency nurse to come in! There was one time that I developed a viral infection quick quickly though. I came to work like any other day and even volunteered to pick up a shift the next day...but then all of the sudden a few hours into the shift I started sweating and had a fever. A few hours after that I was vomiting and couldn't stop. I had to call the nursing supervisor and tell her that I wouldn't be able to work the next day as I had planned and she was going to have to figure out how to reassign my patients because the next stop was the trash can or anyplace I could find because I wasn't going to be able to make it to the staff bathroom each time....I guess the visual got the message across that I was really sick and unable to work at that point because that was the one time that I was allowed to leave. Now, if I'm feeling terrible I just stay home. Once you're there you are stuck and don't want to be charged with abandonment because they refuse to reassign your patients because you've realized you can't make it through the day in that condition. Not to mention the fact that it's most likely contagious and the poor patients/residents have enough to worry about than catching what we've got!

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

Well here was my scenario this year....

Uh.... Those policies are ridiculous on so many levels. I almost don't know what to say. I truly hope that it doesn't take illness or tragedy in the lives of those managers, interrupting their ability to come to work for more than 3 days in a rolling calendar year, to see the idiocy in their ways.

Honestly, that goes beyond the we-are-professionals-and-don't-deserve-that-treatment... No human being in any workplace deserve that treatment.

I don't blame you one iota, and if that's the kind of policies that are going to be put in place, they deserve every repercussion that comes their way.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

You know what I wish? That there weren't nursing staff who abuse the system to the point that unreasonable and unfair restrictions are placed on those who don't (abuse the system).

In a perfect world, there'd be no need for any punitive actions as people would always do the reasonable and responsible thing.....but, that's a perfect world.

Until then, there will be unreasonable and unfair responses to reasonable situations because of the unfair and unreasonable actions of others. As a means of enforcing responsible behavior from those who would otherwise be selfish, people who are genuinely ill suffer additional punishments.

kanzi monkey · Jan 12, 2015

At my facility, calling in sick on Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays requires a doctor's statement, as does calling in on any holidays. If one does not provide a doctor's note, they will not be paid, even if that nurse has months of sick time accrued.

Your facility policy is then mandating that its sick employees risk exposing others to their illness (ie, the flu in an outpatient clinic waiting room or ED or urgent care, etc). There is also the cost to healthcare in taking time and resources for evaluating people for things that can be treated symptomatically.

There is literally no logic to this. It is 100% counterintuitive, and the people who enforce it should be ashamed of themselves. Or, if they are really that confused about why their system is foolish, they legitimately should go back to school and voluntarily relinquish any health care license or certification they hold until they are successfully re-educated.

RNKPCE · Jan 13, 2015

You know what I wish? That there weren't nursing staff who abuse the system to the point that unreasonable and unfair restrictions are placed on those who don't (abuse the system).
In a perfect world, there'd be no need for any punitive actions as people would always do the reasonable and responsible thing.....but, that's a perfect world.
Until then, there will be unreasonable and unfair responses to reasonable situations because of the unfair and unreasonable actions of others. As a means of enforcing responsible behavior from those who would otherwise be selfish, people who are genuinely ill suffer additional punishments.

So along that way of thinking you wouldn't medicate people having pain because some people might be might be drug seekers and faking pain?

firstinfamily, RN · Jan 13, 2015

Nurses are humans too!!! We can get sick on any day of the week and just because it may fall on a holiday does not mean it is not legitimate. If there was an established pattern then yes, perhaps extra disciplinary measures should be applied. Holiday packages should be available so staff know which holidays they will be working. One facility where I worked if you called out on your holiday, you could not use sick time, so no pay if called out; sometimes money or lack thereof can be more powerful than anything else!!

RNKPCE · Jan 13, 2015

Nurses are humans too!!! We can get sick on any day of the week and just because it may fall on a holiday does not mean it is not legitimate. If there was an established pattern then yes, perhaps extra disciplinary measures should be applied. Holiday packages should be available so staff know which holidays they will be working. One facility where I worked if you called out on your holiday, you could not use sick time, so no pay if called out; sometimes money or lack thereof can be more powerful than anything else!!

I'd be concerned staff would call in sick when they were really sick if they weren't going to get paid. Some people can't afford to lose a days wages, they'd jeopardize the health of patients and staff and come in sick.

FlyingScot, RN · Jan 13, 2015

So along that way of thinking you wouldn't medicate people having pain because some people might be might be drug seekers and faking pain?

How on earth did you make that leap?

heron, ASN, RN · Jan 13, 2015

I see two sides to the question.

On the employer's end, paying sick time is an unreimbursed business expense. Can't bill for it. Meanwhile the employer is paying time and a half or some other extra compensation for those who do work the holiday. So a call-in usually incurs a pretty hefty price tag which goes even higher if they cover the hole with promising double time or calling agency. Frankly, setting up some sort of filtering criteria to minimize the risk makes business sense and the employer has every right to do it. If those criteria are too constricting for some, then you have thank those who have abused the option in the past. The employer is not ethically or legally required to stand quietly and do nothing while they're getting fleeced.

So, yes ... from that pov, I think it's appropriate to attach negative consequences to unnecessary call-ins.

On the other hand, most employers are no more ethical than they have to be. The worst of them will push for as much labor per dollar paid as they can possibly squeeze out of their employees. They could care less about harming an employee ... there's more where that came from, ya know?

Without some set of enforcable work rules that draws the line between reasonable consequences and coercion to work even when it's dangerous, I'm afraid that the employer gets to do whatever the company wants. Most of us do not have the time or expertise to negotiate our terms of employment individually, complete with written contracts. That leaves a few unions here and there, who may or may not be effective advocates.

So ... whaddya think we should do?