Is it OK to discipline nurses extra for calling in sick on a holiday?

AZQuik · Jan 11, 2015

If I think it's a huge issue, I call, let them know I am happy to come in where they can take my temp, look at my s/s and then send me home. I will not go to the dr for a note to miss a day or two of work. That said, this was a zero issue in my dept over this past holiday.

BSN GCU 2014. ED Residency

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brandy1017, ASN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

True...and this is exactly why we schedule PTO hours. If you need a mental health day, put in for vacation before the schedule comes out. Call in sick only if you (or your child) is actually sick.

Have you forgotten the mental health parity law. Sometimes people need to take a mental health day in our job. Many nurses are struggling with crippling depression and anxiety and if they need time off should be able to take it. You can even take FMLA if needed for stress, but most of us muddle on and work day in and day out.

But I agree taking regular scheduled vacations, even if you can only afford a stay-cation is one way to cope with stress and refresh yourself. I do this regularly, but where I work you have to put in a year in advance to get time off because they so limit how many nurses can take off that there isn't enough days in the year for everyone to take their vacation time! Not to mention I've heard of cases where vacations were denied or even rescinded due to the never ending "shortage" that is simply not hiring enough staff in the first place!

In my experience nurses don't call off more on the holiday. If anything they drag themselves in and then they are so sick they are sent home by the supervisor. Again if facilities pay overtime holiday pay and use agency they would have no shortage of staff willing to work the holiday!

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

Have you forgotten the mental health parity law. Sometimes people need to take a mental health day in our job. Many nurses are struggling with crippling depression and anxiety and if they need time off should be able to take it. You can even take FMLA if needed for stress, but most of us muddle on and work day in and day out.

I was using the term in the colloquial...at least how I've heard it used, it's referred to a call-in "sick" without actually being sick. In this case, intentionally taking unscheduled holiday time off. But you're absolutely right, and given that some people do suffer terribly, it's an insensitive term. So for that I apologize. If the nurse's depression/anxiety/etc. is so crippling that day that he/she can't practice effectively that IS a sick call.

macfar28 · Jan 11, 2015

Well here was my scenario this year....

Traditionally we have a procedure of alternating Thanksgiving with Christmas (the only 2 holidays our hospital designates as requiring special attention in scheduling). One year we work Thanksgiving and the next Christmas.

Because it was my year to work Thanksgiving, I purchased tickets in early summer for my family of 5 to fly out of state to visit extended family. In October, our hospital announced this year they were doing away with the rotation. Not only that, all employees were asked to sign up for whatever holiday they wanted at midnight on a Saturday night in November via email. If the slot you desired filled up before your email was received, you would be scheduled at management's discretion.

Well, of course I was scheduled for Christmas even though I was approved for PAL the three shifts surrounding Christmas. So yes, I was forced to call out. And it's unexcused because we have a no fault policy. You can be on your death bed in the hospital or in Cancun partying it up. They don't care nor are MD notes accepted.

The other kicker? I am night shift and have been during my ten years at this employer however they scheduled me on DAY SHIFT.

They also only recognize said holidays at 11pm the night before (ie. Christmas Eve at 2300) until 11pm on the day of the holiday (Christmas night at 2300). Some employees like myself who work night shift were scheduled for 7a-3p on Christmas Day and if their normal shift was Thursday nights, they were expected to come back and work 2300-0700 on Christmas night. I find this to be incredibly unreasonable.

They are now considering penalizing us for 2 call outs if we do so on a holiday as opposed to one. We are only allowed 3 call outs in a rolling calendar year before being disciplined. Everything is so punitive here.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

I think that nurses should not call in sick on a holiday, the day before, or the day after, just because they can get away with it. If you want the shift off, then request it off ahead of time and get it approved like you are supposed to do.

Unfortunately in alot of hospitals here this ends up happening because nurses apply for the time off and because they are so continuously short staffed the nurses never get the leave. So the only other option if they really need the time off is to call in sick.

Yes its quite possible that a nurse may have wanted to take time off its hard to say definitively. I know last year I had to take some time off at the end of a weekend as I'd come down with a nasty LRTI and couldnt breath very well.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

A timely thread as I am going to work this morning feeling way less than 100%. Just a lousy head cold, which everybody has right now anyway. If I call in on a weekend not only is there pretty much nobody that will cover the 12 hr shift policy is to make up a weekend call in by working your next weekend off. This alone means if I can walk I can work.

The day I got admitted to hospital with raging cellulitis and sepsis I could walk. I managed to work 2/3rd of the shift, made one med error and while the patient wasnt adversely affected as a result, the potential was there for mega problems. I got told by the doctor at after hours that I really shouldnt have driven from work, I couldnt drive home and get a taxi from home to hospital I had to go via ambulance

I totally get where you are coming from. I made the mistake of going back to work early. Specialist thought I should stay off to the new year, was told that if I was to call in sick over christmas I would be leaving work screwed as there was no one to replace me. So i ended up working that week with a low grade temp. Managed to not screw up any more meds however I think that was good luck rather than any skill on my part.

I wish that us as nurses were as good at caring for ourselves as we are for others.

Conqueror+, BSN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

I was using the term in the colloquial...at least how I've heard it used, it's referred to a call-in "sick" without actually being sick. In this case, intentionally taking unscheduled holiday time off. But you're absolutely right, and given that some people do suffer terribly, it's an insensitive term. So for that I apologize. If the nurse's depression/anxiety/etc. is so crippling that day that he/she can't practice effectively that IS a sick call.

To be clear I was not referring to diagnosed mental illness. I was referring to a long day at work followed by an argument with my husband and 2 year old twins who decided that THIS will be the night they will not sleep. At around 3am you realize that you are liable to go to work and 1. Burst into tears 2. Treat your co workers like crap all day 3. Go off on the first patient that crosses you or even: 4. Walk out at lunch and never come back. This is the morning that I would call out, rest, and get my mind right before coming back in. This is not the same as the nurse who has an emergency every saturday she is supposed to work.

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Jan 11, 2015

This is all quite something. If management said "hey, lets put up some call for the holidays" I am sure that there is bound to be more than a few nurses who may not celebrate the holidays, or circumstances are preventing them from celebrating the holidays who would be more than happy to sign up.

It is insulting to discipline professional adults who are using part of their compensation package, regardless of the day in which they do so.

Instead of asking "are you ok, what can we do, do you need more time, do you need FMLA" it is "that nurse calls out on weekends and holidays. Lets put the threats of discipline and termination in the mix, and see if THAT makes the nurse 'feel better'! The NERVE!"

And nine times out of ten the nurse who is ill over weekends/holidays picked up a nasty little something-something from co-workers who already have been disciplined for "calling out", so have no choice but to come to work ill.

Poor planning on behalf of management. If one knows that staff is limited on any given holiday, and there needs to be plans for sick calls, then one would assume call time would be put out. Agency and PRN's could be used. And more than one nurse (usually on the higher end of the pay bracket) OFFERS to work a holiday--those who say celebrate on Christmas Eve, or don't celebrate at all and are declined. It affects the bottom line too much.

Plus, it keeps up the drama and nurses on the edge of their seats if they need to work short staffed or are so afraid of losing their jobs that they come to work uselessly ill.

Apparently, all it will take is for a patient or 2 to complain on the survey that the nurse taking care of them was coughing or otherwise not peppy and overly engaging on a major holiday. Or as I noted in a pp, some licensing body to start tracking reimbursements to a nurse getting a patient ill because they were strongly encouraged to keep their job, they are to come in, period.

Nursing Is My Life · Jan 11, 2015

I agree with you 100% . It's bad enough that you're sick, you're not feeling well and then to be made to feel bad and guilty because you called in is a bunch of B.S. Where I work, they say if you're sick you have to find your own replacement. That is a joke! We barely have enough employees to staff the facility. It's rediculous. I've been made to come in to work with a fever of 103, because there was no one to replace me. I work in a LTCSNF. About a month ago my only noc cna was ill. I mean she was vomiting large amount x4 at least. I wanted to let her go home, but I couldn't because I couldn't find anyone that would come in and work for her so she could go home, where she needed to be. So she had to stay, I can't run the facility by myself. I felt so bad for her.

I realize there are people that call in just to call in because they don't want to work. Those are the ones that should be punished extra, if it could be proven they weren't sick. But for those that are ill and has a fever and has n/v/d, stay home. They don't need to be there getting the residents ill. They shouldn't get extra punishment either.

Sad thing is, the companies don't care if you're ill, they just want a warm body to be there, no matter what. It's frustrating to say the least. Then you have the little "pets" of the facility that call in all the time and nothing is done to them, when they should have been terminated long ago. The next worker could call in for the first time and has the book brought down on them. It just isn't right. And they wonder why they have such a high turnover rate or can't get anyone to want to come work there. :banghead:

Racer15, BSN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

And policies like this are why I have ended up at work, running a fever, coughing so hard I nearly vomit with the ER doc looking at me and asking "are you dying?! What's wrong?!". I was so sick that day I could barely make it through my shift, let alone give my poor patients the care they needed. But I was scared to call in and thought my charge nurse would recognize how sick I was and let me go home. Nope! He told me he was sorry but he couldn't afford to send me home. Nevermind the fact that I was lethargic and couldn't stop coughing. I could still take care of that neutropenic cancer patient!

springchick1, ADN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

At my facility, calling in sick on Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays requires a doctor's statement, as does calling in on any holidays. If one does not provide a doctor's note, they will not be paid, even if that nurse has months of sick time accrued.

At my facility it doesn't matter if we have a doctor's excuse or not. It is an unexcused absence and therefore it is an occurrence. 7 occurrences in a year (including being tardy) and you are terminated.

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Jan 11, 2015

My thoughts are that it is not okay to discipline nurses for calling out sick. It is okay to try to reduce the number of fake illnesses by requiring a doctor's note.

I wouldn't want to be a sick nurse's patient.