I had an event happen last night that completely disturbed me and I haven’t slept because of it. I’m using this forum to unload and possibly help. I work a psych hospital as an admissions coordinator. I obviously can’t give a ton of details. We accepted a pt from an ER that was supposedly medically clear post drug OD. Pt was calm and cooperative the entire time there. After transport via Sheriff left their facility. Nurse called to warn me that when they tried to get the pt in the car, the pt fell to the ground and started thrashing her body. They called it behavioral and forced her into the vehicle. Sheriff pulled in after an hour drive and told us he can’t get her out because she's “faking sleeping and even snoring” within 2 seconds I recognized it wasn’t snoring, it was stridor breathing and she was is resp distress: sats in the 80’s, pupils pinned and not reactive and unresponsive, lung wheeze inspiratory and expiratory.
911 was called and I told them this a true emergency. EMTs arrive I tell them my report and they completely ignore me and sternal rub the pt she grunts but becomes unresponsive again. They see her pupils and confirm what I saw. Then they proceed to scream at the pt and drag her/jerk her out of the car telling her to stop faking it while hitting her head repeatedly on the car roof. Once they get her out she falls to her knees and they are yelling for her to get up and stop trying make it hard on them. Then said fine we’ll do it the hard way. I keep trying to tell them this a true emergency but they pretend I’m not even there. They man handed her on the gurney flipping her limbs around like a rag doll, insulting her. I kept trying to stop them. It was the most horrific tx of a pt I had ever seen in my almost 14 years of nursing. We found out that the hospital had to immediately incubate her and now she’s in the ICU.
I’m actually having trouble going back to work or ever calling 911 again. I keep thinking about it and I’m sick. My co-worker who was also there is having difficulty dealing too (10 yr ER RN). Obviously, our administration is in uproar and contacting CEO and administrators or the transporting hospital and reporting the EMTs. I have seen blatant disregard for the medical safety of mental pts but never this bad. I’ve also had a lot of struggles with bias toward psych nurses too as we are treated like we don’t know what we are doing and frankly I’m tired of it. I’m not angry for myself, I angry for my pts. I know people are burnt out and psych pts do require different strategies to care but they are people and psych nurses are still nurses with a medical education and experience. That is all you can delete if this is too much info but it helped to write it down.
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
6 hours ago, Emergent said:
It is bad practice when people don't rule out medical problems in psych patients, before considering that they might be having a behavioral episode. Then to react like it's a personal insult and get angry at the patient.
Even some Psych nurses are blind to patient distress. I can’t count how many times I’ve had to explain the difference between pseudo- seizures and fake seizures. Or how many nurses write patients off as Axis 2.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
This is disgusting and must be reported. But don't use the "friend of a friend" approach. Go the proper channels and get some counseling to deal with your feelings ASAP. I am so sorry.
I had an event happen last night that completely disturbed me and I haven’t slept because of it. I’m using this forum to unload and possibly help. I work a psych hospital as an admissions coordinator. I obviously can’t give a ton of details. We accepted a pt from an ER that was supposedly medically clear post drug OD. Pt was calm and cooperative the entire time there. After transport via Sheriff left their facility. Nurse called to warn me that when they tried to get the pt in the car, the pt fell to the ground and started thrashing her body. They called it behavioral and forced her into the vehicle. Sheriff pulled in after an hour drive and told us the he can’t her out because she “faking sleeping and even snoring” within 2 seconds I recognized it wasn’t snoring, it was stridor breathing and she was is resp distress: sats in the 80’s, pupils pinned and not reactive and unresponsive, lung wheeze inspiratory and expiratory.
911 was called and I told them this a true emergency. EMTs arrive I tell them my report and they completely ignore me and sternal rub the pt she grunts but becomes unresponsive again. They see her pupils and confirm what I saw. Then they proceed to scream at the pt and drag her/jerk her out of the car telling her to stop faking it while hitting her head repeatedly on the car roof. Once the get her out she falls to her knees and they are yelling for her to get up and stop trying make it hard on them. Then said fine we’ll do it the hard way. I keep trying to tell them this a true emergency but they pretend I’m not even there. They man handed her on the gurney flipping her limbs around like a rag doll, insulting her. I kept trying to stop them. It was the most horrific tx of a pt I had ever seen in my almost 14 years of nursing. We found out that the hospital had to immediately incubate her and now she’s in the ICU.
I’m actually having trouble going back to work or ever calling 911 again. I keep thinking about it and I’m sick. My co-worker who was also there is having difficulty dealing too(10 yr ER RN). Obviously, our administration is in uproar and contacting CEO and administrators or the transporting hospital and reporting the EMTs. I have seen blatant disregard for the medical safety of mental pts but never this bad. I’ve also had a lot of struggles with bias toward psych nurses too as we are treated like we don’t know what we are doing and frankly I’m tired of it. I’m not angry for myself, I angry for my pts. I know people are burnt out and psych pts do require different strategies to care but they are people and psych nurses are still nurses with a medical education and experience. That is all you can delete if this is too much info but it helped to write it down.
The patient and the patient's family deserves to know what happened. You should make a police report. That is abuse.
This is horrific. Psych patients are so vulnerable, dismissed, discounted, degraded, with no resources to advocate for themselves. I feel so grateful to know that there are nurses like yourself who work so hard to protect their humanity.
Psych doesn't get a lot of focus, and sadly we need it now more than ever. Not just for specific patients, but I think really for the whole human race. Collectively we are not OK.
People don't like to think about the mental health toll of this pandemic.
Those EMTs behaved like sociopaths. Why do they get a pass to brutalize an unconscious person, like it's just another day at the office - just because that person comes labelled with a diagnosis? I'm so glad your facility is pursuing this.
I think some of it had to do with the EMT's and law enforcement officers often know each other, work together, want to be buddies, try to help each other. I am not excusing or condoning the assaultive criminal behavior.
One other point - police are trained to suspect drug or alcohol abuse and to treat people with Narcan.
I sometimes question the wisdom of this because police are not nurses, doctors, or EMT's. They are not taught to formulate a differential diagnosis and rule out other causes of various behaviors.
.... One other point - police are trained to suspect drug or alcohol abuse and to treat people with Narcan.
I sometimes question the wisdom of this because police are not nurses, doctors, or EMT's. They are not taught to formulate a differential diagnosis and rule out other causes of various behaviors.
When in doubt, err on the safe side. Lots of cases they've prob been right.
Specializes in Addictions, psych, corrections, transfers.
Thank you everyone for your support. I took your advice and I'm going through our administration to file a report. I used my friend to get the EMTs names only. For me, therapy is talking about it a lot and I did that and no more anxiety or nightmares.
One other point - police are trained to suspect drug or alcohol abuse and to treat people with Narcan.
They are not taught to formulate a differential diagnosis and rule out other causes of various behaviors.
There is no rigorous process to become an EMT or police officer. Physical but not educational. They are taught to use force if necessary. They are not taught to see the victim as a patient. When they go to the hospital, psych ward, they still have that 'use force' behavior.
Thank you everyone for your support. I took your advice and I'm going through our administration to file a report. I used my friend to get the EMTs names only. For me, therapy is talking about it a lot and I did that and no more anxiety or nightmares.
I'm glad to hear that you're reporting this--what a terrible incident! You mentioned that people are burnt out, but to me, this goes beyond burn out. I've also had times where I haven't wanted to call 911 due to negative experiences with the EMTs. I haven't personally witnessed something to this extreme, but I have had many experiences where the emergency responders simply do not believe me and/or a patient that something is wrong. In several of these instances, the patient ended up requiring ICU care. I've also seen it where providers and/or EMS will treat a patient differently because they potentially have psych issues. This is shameful; as you mentioned, these people are also human, and deserve to be treated with respect. It's great that you've found someone you can talk with; I think most of us would find something like this difficult to witness. Thank you for being this patient's advocate and well wishes to you as you continue to advocate for other patients as well.
Specializes in Addictions, psych, corrections, transfers.
15 hours ago, SilverBells said:
I'm glad to hear that you're reporting this--what a terrible incident! You mentioned that people are burnt out, but to me, this goes beyond burn out. I've also had times where I haven't wanted to call 911 due to negative experiences with the EMTs. I haven't personally witnessed something to this extreme, but I have had many experiences where the emergency responders simply do not believe me and/or a patient that something is wrong. In several of these instances, the patient ended up requiring ICU care. I've also seen it where providers and/or EMS will treat a patient differently because they potentially have psych issues. This is shameful; as you mentioned, these people are also human, and deserve to be treated with respect. It's great that you've found someone you can talk with; I think most of us would find something like this difficult to witness. Thank you for being this patient's advocate and well wishes to you as you continue to advocate for other patients as well.
Ditto on so much of this. I'm one of those nurses that doesn't take crap from them. I actually told one EMT when they were giving me a bad time about sending a pt (ended up critical potassium landing in ICU) "Hey, do you want me to throw blood everywhere to make things more exciting for you? My doc wants her sent out so just take her." That shut her up. I wish we didn't have to fight in EMTs but I guess that's part of advocating for patients.
From my experience,I found emts rude,condescending to whatever nurse is there trying to give some type of report.This was same on the street as well as in an airplane removing a sick passenger.They would not listen to whatever was explained to them.Just grab and go.
hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I
4 Articles; 5,212 Posts
Even some Psych nurses are blind to patient distress. I can’t count how many times I’ve had to explain the difference between pseudo- seizures and fake seizures. Or how many nurses write patients off as Axis 2.