Actually, I lost all respect for two colleagues today. One is a brand new grad, about 21 or 22 and gorgeous in one of those fresh, "girl next door" ways. She gets her scrubs tailored so they fit her just so, her hair is long, shiny and falls in loose lustrous waves. She could be a model, so we'll call her Heidi. The other is a married neurosurgery fellow, whose wife is pregnant with his first child. We'll call him Dr. Dick, or just Dick.
Heidi didn't do anything to seriously endanger a patient: she didn't slam in Lasix, for example, or trickle in Adenosine. She didn't miss a run of VT (although, to be fair, the Clin Tech noticed it first and pointed it out to Heidi). She didn't ignore post-op pain or bleeding, and she wasn't the one sitting at the computer at the nurse's station, headphones on and watching a hockey game while ignoring monitor alarms and call bells. Nevertheless, I've completely lost respect for her.
It was a slow night for a Friday night -- half of our surgeons were out of town for a conference and of the remaining four, one just lost his mother and isn't back from the funeral in Asia. There's a new sushi restaurant near the hospital, and they deliver if you can put together a lucrative-enough order. The folks I work with are crazy about sushi and even the Respiratory Therapists and the X-ray techs were ordering $20 worth of sushi.
We were all sitting in the back -- well, not ALL of us. Half of us were sitting in the back, having drawn the long straw and were enjoying our sushi while the other half watched all of the patients. Heidi was sitting next to Dick, something that really didn't register with me at the time, and Dick was regaling us all with a tale about how his wife's incredible morning sickness caused her to toss her cookies in the waste basket of a patient's hospital room while the patient described in great detail the "unusual" nature of his poop. (Only nurses -- and surgeons, RTs and X-ray techs can sit around enjoying a good meal while describing poop and someone's vomiting episodes.)
And then I went back to relieve Steve, my substation partner so he could eat his sushi. While Steve was gone, his patient's attending surgeon stopped by and asked a question I couldn't answer, so I popped into the break room to ask him about it. Both Heidi and Dick were still there, only this time they were sharing a single chair. The sexual tension was palpable, and Steve looked thrilled to be interrupted. He shot out of the room as though he'd been fired from a cannon.
Heidi, it seems, has been sleeping with Dick since her arrival on our unit in July. She knows all about the pregnant wife . . .
Heidi may be a good clinician one day, she may be a compassionate and caring nurse. She may be a hard worker. But I will never again respect a woman who could sleep with a married man, a man whose wife is pregnant with their child and who is a sometimes-colleague on a consulting service. And the fact that they made no attempt to be discreet makes them even more contemptible. I've lived through the drama on a unit when an affair goes bad, witnessed a famously and flagrantly unfaithful surgeon's wife storm into the ICU demanding "which one of you ugly ******* is ******* my husband?" and making a good attempt to castrate the man in question. I've seen the aftermath of the DON being found going at it with the Medical Director of Emergency Medicine and I've lived through more nurses breaking up with doctors on our service than I can even remember. I've been the cheated-upon, and it was more painful than even I can describe. Why would you put someone else through that deliberately?
Keep it out of work, people. And if you cannot do that, at least be discreet.
Two teachers got married at my children's school last year. But absolutely NO ONE knew they were dating until they went to Hawaii over Spring Break and got married! I'm utterly amazed at how discreet they were. And these are young people, late 20s. It is possible to be an adult, you just have to choose to act like one.
Why should you have anything to do with vows I take? They have nothing to do with you. They are between the two people who took them. What if it was a vow you absolutely didn't believe in??
I'm still obligated to respect it and not do anything that would violate it. I'm obligated not to encourage you to do anything that would violate it. Why? Simple human decency.
Do you really think that just because someone doesn't believe in the kind of vow you took, they should feel free to be destructive toward it? What kind of society does that build? What happened to mutual respect and tolerance?
We would see the docs so rarely...they are in to do rounds in the am or occasionally a couple of times later in the day if something comes up, but for the most part they are in and out pretty quickly, then head to their offices. It would be hard to imagine having the opportunity to nurture the attraction long enough to get to that point. Most docs I've heard of messing around were doing it with their office staff, as they spend a lot more time together. Sometimes you'd hear about it happening between surgeons and the OR staff, who spend more hours around each other, or docs/nurses in the cath lab, who are also in a position to get to know each other better.
Maybe I just wasn't paying attention.
Regardless of one's thoughts about appropriate ratio of moral culpability of the two involved, it's highly unprofessional to be canoodling with ANYONE during working hours. And some seem not to have noticed that the first sentence of the OP after the title was "Actually, I lost all respect for two colleagues today."
If my husband had an affair with someone with whom I have a relationship of trust, I would be incredibly hurt and devastated, and may not be able to recover. But the only person I would blame for dishonoring my marriage vows is the person with whom I made said vows.
That's fair. But certainly you understand that it takes two to tango. I agree that your husband would certainly be culpable for violating his vows, BUT the "other woman" is also responsible for not respecting the virtue of those vows.
Specializes in Medical Oncology, Alzheimer/dementia.
Two teachers got married at my children's school last year. But absolutely NO ONE knew they were dating until they went to Hawaii over Spring Break and got married! I'm utterly amazed at how discreet they were. And these are young people, late 20s. It is possible to be an adult, you just have to choose to act like one.
Exactly dusky. I've known of that too. Be discreet. In a perfect world, married couples would honor their vows and live happily ever after. But we don't live in a perfect word. I take my my vows seriously, & my husband darn well better take them seriously. Other than that, I don't care who's doing who, just as long as I don't have to see it or hear about it, and just as long as I don't have to pick up your slack.
I'm still obligated to respect it and not do anything that would violate it. I'm obligated not to encourage you to do anything that would violate it. Why? Simple human decency.
Do you really think that just because someone doesn't believe in the kind of vow you took, they should feel free to be destructive toward it? What kind of society does that build? What happened to mutual respect and tolerance?
And if my vow was to stone all cheaters you would do nothing to stop me since I took a vow? Bottom line is the only people who can destroy a vow are the people taking them. That's it.
And if my vow was to stone all cheaters you would do nothing to stop me since I took a vow? Bottom line is the only people who can destroy a vow are the people taking them. That's it.
You're engaging in hyperbole now. That's criminal activity.
You're right that the only people who can destroy a vow are the ones that take it. However, people around them shouldn't feel free to help. I'm really shocked that this is so controversial.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Wow, Ruby. I enjoyed reading that. Just like a Harlequin! I don't blame you for losing respect.
Do you know for a fact they are sleeping together? I mean, sharing a chair makes it pretty obvious that something is going on...
The facts that he is married and his wife is pregnant definitely make the relationship more scandalous, but even a straightforward relationship, when conducted at work, is downright inappropriate. It makes everyone around you uncomfortable, and you can be sure you aren't focused 100% on the job when your object of lust is sitting next to (or under) you.
Just don't, people.
I almost feel bad for Heidi. At 21, I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I'm sure she knows it is wrong to be messing with this dude, but she's got stars in her eyes and by golly, he's a doctor! Someone needs to confront her and tell her: Nothing good can come of this. A whole heaping load of bad, but nothing good.
Heidi's roommate said that not much sleeping goes on in the apartment when he's there . . . .
Oh please, this isn't the 50's. I personally dong think you should date at work, but that's on them. As for her being a disgrace what about him? He deserves way more if the blame by a long shot.
Yeah probably so. Please don't tell me you are so naive as to think some women don't THROW themselves at married men in a position of power in order to advance their careers?! They are both adults. He may be more at fault than she, but I would still lose respect for the person I worked with. It's my opinion. Thanks for caring about it.
Everyone's opinions are either formed by what happened to them personally, what happened to someone they knew/know, or something they were told at one time.
Opinions aren't formed in a vacuum.
Actually I was responding to people wondering why the blame seemed like it was mostly on Heidi. In the OP Ruby says she was cheated upon. Why are you trying to school me on opinions? I know how they work...
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Keep out of the rumor and the fray. Some people have weird personal lives that are messed up, not something we would do....you just never, ever know. For what it is worth, MD may not even still be with the wife, pregnant or not--and the young nurse may not be having any sort of an affair, just a really close friend. Could be his niece. Could be another obscure relative/friend of my father's stuff. You just don't know. (and with the difficulty in any number of new grads getting jobs, this is plausible--everyone seems to need to know someone--to what extent, we just don't know).
There are many who jump to the conclusion that people are having affairs. While that may be the case, it has nothing to do with how Heidi practices as a nurse. Huge error in judgement as far as bringing it to work--break room or not--however, what they do on their time is their thing.
I would keep what you saw to yourself. I would not comment when asked. I would not continue a rumor and gossip. Because even though they may be having a bang-up time--and again, we do not KNOW that this is the case--she is a 21 year old young lady (and at 21, fresh outta college, any number can and do fall for anything in the romance department) and he is older, wiser, and should know better--but unfortunetely, it falls on the female that somehow she is to "blame" for all of this. And moreso, the comments about this nurse's looks, right down to the tailored scrubs--that really has little to do with it.
To put it another way--I have no respect for men who prey on young girls for their own entertainment **in my personal life** and bring all the nonsense to work so it becomes part of my professional life with the never ending speculation, gossip and all around trashing of the nurse in this, as opposed to the MD, as opposed to anyone, because quite frankly, it is none of my business.
No way to keep out of the rumor and the fray -- everyone on shift that night saw what was going on, and Heidi's roommate verified the assumption that there was a sexual relationship going on. (Although to be fair, since she has only HEARD and not SEEN what was going on in the bedroom, I guess we don't know for SURE.) As far as "trashing" the girl -- there's equal-opportunity trashing going on, and HE has lost more respect than anyone. But 21 is old enough to know not to mess with someone who is already involved elsewhere, even if it isn't old enough to understand the full ramifications of how it will affect her work relationships. There's a lack of judgement there and a willingness to cause emotional pain to another person, and dang it, that's just wrong.
duskyjewel
1,335 Posts
Two teachers got married at my children's school last year. But absolutely NO ONE knew they were dating until they went to Hawaii over Spring Break and got married! I'm utterly amazed at how discreet they were. And these are young people, late 20s. It is possible to be an adult, you just have to choose to act like one.