Actually, I lost all respect for two colleagues today. One is a brand new grad, about 21 or 22 and gorgeous in one of those fresh, "girl next door" ways. She gets her scrubs tailored so they fit her just so, her hair is long, shiny and falls in loose lustrous waves. She could be a model, so we'll call her Heidi. The other is a married neurosurgery fellow, whose wife is pregnant with his first child. We'll call him Dr. Dick, or just Dick.
Heidi didn't do anything to seriously endanger a patient: she didn't slam in Lasix, for example, or trickle in Adenosine. She didn't miss a run of VT (although, to be fair, the Clin Tech noticed it first and pointed it out to Heidi). She didn't ignore post-op pain or bleeding, and she wasn't the one sitting at the computer at the nurse's station, headphones on and watching a hockey game while ignoring monitor alarms and call bells. Nevertheless, I've completely lost respect for her.
It was a slow night for a Friday night -- half of our surgeons were out of town for a conference and of the remaining four, one just lost his mother and isn't back from the funeral in Asia. There's a new sushi restaurant near the hospital, and they deliver if you can put together a lucrative-enough order. The folks I work with are crazy about sushi and even the Respiratory Therapists and the X-ray techs were ordering $20 worth of sushi.
We were all sitting in the back -- well, not ALL of us. Half of us were sitting in the back, having drawn the long straw and were enjoying our sushi while the other half watched all of the patients. Heidi was sitting next to Dick, something that really didn't register with me at the time, and Dick was regaling us all with a tale about how his wife's incredible morning sickness caused her to toss her cookies in the waste basket of a patient's hospital room while the patient described in great detail the "unusual" nature of his poop. (Only nurses -- and surgeons, RTs and X-ray techs can sit around enjoying a good meal while describing poop and someone's vomiting episodes.)
And then I went back to relieve Steve, my substation partner so he could eat his sushi. While Steve was gone, his patient's attending surgeon stopped by and asked a question I couldn't answer, so I popped into the break room to ask him about it. Both Heidi and Dick were still there, only this time they were sharing a single chair. The sexual tension was palpable, and Steve looked thrilled to be interrupted. He shot out of the room as though he'd been fired from a cannon.
Heidi, it seems, has been sleeping with Dick since her arrival on our unit in July. She knows all about the pregnant wife . . .
Heidi may be a good clinician one day, she may be a compassionate and caring nurse. She may be a hard worker. But I will never again respect a woman who could sleep with a married man, a man whose wife is pregnant with their child and who is a sometimes-colleague on a consulting service. And the fact that they made no attempt to be discreet makes them even more contemptible. I've lived through the drama on a unit when an affair goes bad, witnessed a famously and flagrantly unfaithful surgeon's wife storm into the ICU demanding "which one of you ugly ******* is ******* my husband?" and making a good attempt to castrate the man in question. I've seen the aftermath of the DON being found going at it with the Medical Director of Emergency Medicine and I've lived through more nurses breaking up with doctors on our service than I can even remember. I've been the cheated-upon, and it was more painful than even I can describe. Why would you put someone else through that deliberately?
Keep it out of work, people. And if you cannot do that, at least be discreet.
I've come to believe that it's ingrained in us to harbor more animosity or negativity toward the member of the same sex as us when casting judgments. I'd say it's natural, but it really doesn't seem right to say so. Yeah, I'm going with ingrained.
In the example I shared I know I was far more willing to direct negative thoughts toward the intern. Because he was married. Because he knew some women admired his ability. And he still chose to seduce them, or, go with where being pursued would lead.
But what really got me riled up about the Intern (Now DO) is that he was a man. Same as I. I know damn well where the brightened eyes of someone you are mentoring or teaching can take you. He should have known better. And after speaking with him about it for as long as I could stand, he did. But he's still practicing and ho'ing around. The ladies he got involved with bliblically that ultimately went after each other are not.
As I said, it's ingrained to look at the offender of the same sex and pass judgement. At least that's what I believe.
I'm glad to hear he's facing disapproval too. What really gets me is that absolutely no one is forced to get married these days. If you're not going to keep the vows, just don't take them. You wanna be free to have sex with anyone that crosses your path? Then be honest about it and don't pledge fidelity to anyone.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Over the past several decades I have known quite a number of Heidis and Dr Dicks. The most memorable actually involved a pregnant wife and there were already 3 other children. Dr. Dick divorced the wife who worked as a nurse to support him financially through medical school and residency. He married Heidi, fathered a family with her and built a 10k sq ft mcmansion in the community that idolizes him.
I don't understand this....why SHOULDN'T everyone be expected to honor the marriage vows of those around them?
The point I was attempting to make in my previous post is that if everybody who actually takes a vow stayed true to them, the behaviors of others would be rendered irrelevant.
I honestly don’t understand how a married man’s fidelity becomes a random woman’s responsibility. All that’s required is that the person who makes a promise fulfills it.
Men aren’t helpless victims of their sexuality, they are equally capable of controlling their sexual urges as women, if they want to. Straying requires a deliberate decision. I’m a believer in personal accountability, and that is the foundation for my opinion on this issue. My promises are mine to keep, and mine alone.
I believe that fidelity is the responsibility of an individual, not a collective.
Generally speaking, I think that it’s illogical for someone who’s been deceived to direct their anger and hurt at the other wo/man. Get angry or disappointed with the spineless thing you’re married to or involved with instead. It’s that person who has let you and themselves down and who has betrayed your trust.
I’m not sure that we can see eye to eye on this, but this was an attempt to explain my position.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I really think the doc in this case deserves waaaay more vitriol than your colleague. For one, he is the one who is married. She is presumably single? Why should she be responsible for his behavior? Also, there is a power element here. She is a new nurse, he is an experienced surgeon. He may have seen her as an easy mark to be manipulated. I feel like you're giving him a free pass in this rant.
I think he is the really sleazy one. But agree--don't poop where you eat.
They are both my colleagues. No free passes for him in the workplace -- he's starting to notice that now, I think. And if Heidi didn't know he was married, I would have felt sorry for her. But she did know, and she knows his wife -- we all do.
But the point of the whole story -- which is aimed at nurses since this is a nursing site -- is that you don't get involved with married colleagues . . . you lose the respect of everyone you work with. And he's unlikely to marry you and take you away from all this. If they were both single, probably none of my business although, like Steve, I wouldn't want to be eating lunch with them. If they were discreet, none of my business . . . unless I happened upon them in the janitor's closet or something. (Which probably isn't being as discreet as you should be.)
Heidi responsible for Dick's behavior? If it weren't her, it would be someone else. But it is her. Some would argue that it's a lack of morality, a breech in ethics, a massive lack in judgement. I can't help but think of how the pregnant wife is going to feel when she hears about it -- and due to the lack of discretion of the copulating pair, she will. I just cannot respect anyone -- Dick OR Heidi -- who is willing to be the cause of that much pain to another human being.
I just cannot respect anyone -- Dick OR Heidi -- who is willing to be the cause of that much pain to another human being.
To be willing to engage in adultery, regardless of which side of the equation you're on, means to be willing to wound someone else in one of the deepest, most profound ways they can be wounded. I think we're obligated to avoid purposely wounding other people.
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
I really think the doc in this case deserves waaaay more vitriol than your colleague. For one, he is the one who is married. She is presumably single? Why should she be responsible for his behavior? Also, there is a power element here. She is a new nurse, he is an experienced surgeon. He may have seen her as an easy mark to be manipulated. I feel like you're giving him a free pass in this rant.
I think he is the really sleazy one. But agree--don't poop where you eat.
It takes two; they share the blame equally. No one should get a pass.
Over the past several decades I have known quite a number of Heidis and Dr Dicks. The most memorable actually involved a pregnant wife and there were already 3 other children. Dr. Dick divorced the wife who worked as a nurse to support him financially through medical school and residency. He married Heidi, fathered a family with her and built a 10k sq ft mcmansion in the community that idolizes him.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
So many questions. Have you lost all respect for this neurosurgeon or is he held to a different standard? What does her looks have to do with anything, or the fact that she gets her scrubs tailored? Do you personally know Mrs. Dick? Do you know what type of marriage they have? As many previous posters have mentioned they may have an open marriage, and perhaps the wife is okay with his philandering ways as long as she is provided for. If Heidi's doing her job and in such a way that patient outcomes are not adversely affected, then who cares whose lap she's sitting on or if she's sharing a one-seater with another (married) worker. As a co-worker, I can imagine that it is probably uncomfortable for you (and maybe some of your fellow co-workers too) but these two are consenting adults.
Yup -- lost respect for the surgeon as well.
Yes, I personally know Mrs. Dick as does Heidi and everyone else we work with. She's a physician on a consulting service; we see her frequently and regularly.
I know nothing about the details of the Dick marriage.
I do know that sitting in the break room -- or at a nurse's station, in a patient room (patient unconscious, thank the stars) or anywhere else with those two is uncomfortable. 21 is young, but not so young as to NOT see how uncomfortable you're making others.
Dr. Dick and his wife will be moving on in July. Heidi presumably -- and we all know how big of an assumption this is where new grads are concerned -- will be staying and working with all of us for the next few years or so. My days of working with either Dr. Dick are numbered; and I don't work as closely with the Dicks. Heidi could be my orientee, (yup, still on orientation) my substation partner, someone whose evaluation I'll have to do or a committee member I'll have to work with quite closely. Her behavior is making her fellow nurses uncomfortable with her.
And while Dr. Dick is a sleaze, he'll be gone and forgotten while I'm still working with Heidi.
This thread isn't going to influence the behavior of Dr. Dicks anywhere, but if Heidis everywhere see it and think about it, perhaps it may influence their behavior. (This is a nursing site, after all). And that's where I was aiming.
Ruby, I usually agree with what you post but on this one I don't. You don't know what her intentions were in becoming a nurse and that she became one to bag a doctor. Here is what a lot of these guys do. They are married but bored or in a marriage where they are not happy. They are flirtatious to everyone around them. Here is young 20 something girl who is very naive in life and may have low self esteem. It starts out innocent enough with a smile or some words. Then he moves in strong and heavy. Texting her how beautiful, smart, kind, and compassionate she is. She may not have heard these words before. She gets taken in. He tells her how awful his home life is. His wife is awful to him. She doesn't understand him, but Heidi does. He can't believe how he has fallen for her. And now his awful wife is pregnant. How dare she do that to him? He didn't want this. He tells Heidi he wants her, but can't leave his wife because she is pregnant. Heidi says she will wait and she understands. He thanks her. He texts her all of the time. He pays attention to her like no man has ever before. She thinks she has found the love of her life. She says to herself she will patiently wait for him no matter how long it takes because they were meant for each other. Their timing was just off.
Dr. Dick has no intention of leaving his wife. But this relationship with Heidi is so forbidden, so intoxicating. But he tells Heidi that someday they will be together and ride off into the sunset. Meanwhile, he tells his wife how much he loves her and he can't wait for the baby to come so they will be a family forever. He knows all of the right words to say to each woman. He knows how to play the game. He assures Heidi that this has never happened before. Heidi feels special for the first time in her life. She is young but she wants to be married and have a family too someday. To her, 22 is starting to feel a little old. She is getting a little worried because she is not married, and all of her friends from college and high school are either married or planning a wedding. It looks like fun. She wants that too.
I know what Heidi is thinking and feeling. Not because that it happened to me like that, but kind of. I was in a horrible marriage. Felt horrible about myself. Self esteem down the tubes. Then a man comes along and pays attention to you. Just to hear how beautiful and special you are. Just to hear I wasn't the horrible person my ex made me out to feel like. I could feel emotions again. I could start to be myself again. I was very vulnerable and this person honed in on that. They made me feel like I was the person they had been waiting for their entire lives. He told me he was miserable and was getting a divorce as soon as he could. No his wife wasn't pregnant. It took me about 6 months to see through all of the lies and manipulation. It was a hard pill for me to swallow that he wasn't going to leave her for me like he promised. But I finally did and broke it off. This was a year ago. I was dealing with anger from the fallout of my marriage, to the stress of school, and adjusting to life as a single mom. My ex isolated me so I didn't really have many friends I could lean on. This guy was my crutch.
So before you all judge Heidi without knowing about her personal life and what Dr. Dick has been telling her, realize she is being manipulated also. I'm sure this guy has a huge personality and is friendly with everyone. He is probably quite charismatic. He probably charms everyone around him without crossing a line. He may even be telling his wife how this woman at work is just throwing herself at him and he doesn't know what to do.
I can tell you, she may be dying to talk to someone. She is probably confused and needs a friend to help her see what she can't. I did. A friend sat down with me and gave me the cold, hard truth one day. I realized how wrong I was and what I was doing was not good. I honestly couldn't see that before. I was blinded by all of the sweet nothings he whispered in my ear. I have thanked that friend so many times for helping me. Everyone on here will judge, but who will step up and be that friend that she needs? Who is willing to do that?
I'm in a healthy relationship now and am the happiest I have ever been in my life. I have the man of my dreams who thinks I am awesome and wants to be with me. I just think from time to time if my friend had not been there for me that day, would I still be on the downward spiral? Would I still be waiting for him to leave her? I'm very thankful for where I am now. And I hope that none of you will judge me. I just wanted to give you some insight on Heidi.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Two teachers got married at my children's school last year. But absolutely NO ONE knew they were dating until they went to Hawaii over Spring Break and got married! I'm utterly amazed at how discreet they were. And these are young people, late 20s. It is possible to be an adult, you just have to choose to act like one.
My husband and I worked on the same unit, and while some knew we were dating (we were both single), there were quite a few of our co-workers who thought it was an enormous coincidence that we both got married in another city in the same week. And we'd been dating for four years.
To be willing to engage in adultery, regardless of which side of the equation you're on, means to be willing to wound someone else in one of the deepest, most profound ways they can be wounded. I think we're obligated to avoid purposely wounding other people.
AdamantiteEnigma
183 Posts
I've come to believe that it's ingrained in us to harbor more animosity or negativity toward the member of the same sex as us when casting judgments. I'd say it's natural, but it really doesn't seem right to say so. Yeah, I'm going with ingrained.
In the example I shared I know I was far more willing to direct negative thoughts toward the intern. Because he was married. Because he knew some women admired his ability. And he still chose to seduce them, or, go with where being pursued would lead.
But what really got me riled up about the Intern (Now DO) is that he was a man. Same as I. I know damn well where the brightened eyes of someone you are mentoring or teaching can take you. He should have known better. And after speaking with him about it for as long as I could stand, he did. But he's still practicing and ho'ing around. The ladies he got involved with bliblically that ultimately went after each other are not.
As I said, it's ingrained to look at the offender of the same sex and pass judgement. At least that's what I believe.