I don't know what to do... I need advice

nurse4theplanet, RN · Nov 13, 2005

Wow...what a story.

First, I would like to say that I am so sorry for your situation. I am almost at a loss for words...this is something you see on tv, it hardly seems real, yet you are living it day to day! My heart goes out to you and your family, and all others involved.

I will offer my best advice, if I were faced with such a situation. Ed is dead, but his alleged victims are still living. Questions need to be answered. If the tables were turned and you were in the shoes of those who need to know if it was murder, then how would you feel? What decision would you want the other family to make? This will take deep consideration on your part, and I certainly would not want to carry your burden.

As for your family, I can see how terrible it would be to reopen old wounds. I have never lost a parent, only a very close grandmother. It was devasting and its been about two months and I am still struggling. The grieving process is different for everyone and your sisters may still be grieving, or may be hurtled back into the entire process all over again. Perhaps, this should be a group decision with the sibling that has the mental capacity to do so. Can you contact the other families to see how they would feel if you declined?

Bipley · Nov 13, 2005

Wow...what a story.
First, I would like to say that I am so sorry for your situation. I am almost at a loss for words...this is something you see on tv, it hardly seems real, yet you are living it day to day! My heart goes out to you and your family, and all others involved.

You know what? It's like a surreal soap opera. It doesn't seem real to me. When I look at my Mom's death... it was something expected and knew would happen. I think about Ed, he *really* was a nice guy. He was a gem. What value is there in killing my Mom before their marriage? He stood to gain NOTHING until after they were married. It makes no sense.

My Mom was missing a LOT of cash at the time of her death. However, I know my Mom and she was literally addicted to spending money. We found stuff in her home that she purchased and never even took out of the bags. She would sit in her bed and order stuff via the telephone. The packages would come and she wouldn't even open them. Just stuff them in a closet. Amazing stuff we found. :) Future birthday gifts for all of us, you just had to see it to believe it. So yes, there was a lot of cash gone, history, never to be seen again. But I also knew my Mom and knew how she spent money. The biggest purchase I could find for Ed was a roll-top desk. Not even a fancy one, simple and basic. If she spent it on him I couldn't find a paper trail.

I will offer my best advice, if I were faced with such a situation. Ed is dead, but his alleged victims are still living. Questions need to be answered. If the tables were turned and you were in the shoes of those who need to know if it was murder, then how would you feel? What decision would you want the other family to make? This will take deep consideration on your part, and I certainly would not want to carry your burden.

Thus, my delimma. I would certainly want to know if I suspected my parent was murdered. But OTOH, I will have to deal with my own sister if she discovered my Mom was murdered. That's no easy task. Sissy is OCD and bipolar. I don't know if I can keep doing this. The older she gets the worse she gets.

As for your family, I can see how terrible it would be to reopen old wounds. I have never lost a parent, only a very close grandmother. It was devasting and its been about two months and I am still struggling.

I *am* sorry for your loss. In some ways your first loss is more significant than the loss of a parent. It sticks with you for the rest of your days. I really am sorry. I'm going to take a risk and refer you to:

www.georgeanderson.com

It has made a difference for me.

The grieving process is different for everyone and your sisters may still be grieving, or may be hurtled back into the entire process all over again. Perhaps, this should be a group decision with the sibling that has the mental capacity to do so. Can you contact the other families to see how they would feel if you declined?

I don't want to do that. I may have to but I still don't wanna. This is like a darn soap opera. I thought it was over years ago. I didn't realize it was just beginning.

I have the weirdest stories. I'm not sure I'd believe me if I wasn't me. :crying2:

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 13, 2005

If it were me, my need to know and the need of the other family to know would outweigh everything else, even if in the end it only opened up old wounds and doesn't change the loss.

I presume your challenged sister has doctors or counselers? Maybe they can advise on the best way to handle her to make it easier. Perhaps with some mild medication to help. That's a tough one.

Sorry for the trouble. Good luck.

nursing 101 · Nov 13, 2005

I am not trying to be insensitive but if 'ED' is dead what is all the digging going to prove? All it's going to prove is whether he killed them or not. After that how is it going to resolve anything? He's not even alive. Now if he were alive it would be different.

I don't know but If it were me I say let the dead rest in peace and leave it up to a higher power to deal with this. If it was him I am sure he is already dealing with this wherever he is.

I would pray for my mother's and everyone's soul involved and help them if anything rest in peace.

This is JMHO!

And it truly is an amazing story. Sorry for your loss. Please let us know what your decision will be.

weetziebat · Nov 13, 2005

Wow! that is quite an amazing story.

And I'd like to first offer my sincere condolences for all you've gone through.

One question..at the time the housekeeper and her daughter died, wasn't there an investigation into the causes of death?

Could they not disinter their bodies to discover a cause of death? After all, it seems it would be their families who are most in need of answers. And that would not put your sister through all the grief of disinterring your mom's body.

Are you a nurse? I ask that only because of your questions about the ability to find traces of anti-coagulants in your mother's body. Could you ask a pathologist that you may know? Or perhaps call a medical examiner? Seems someone should be able to answer that question.

One other thing. I'd like to thank you for the link to George Anderson. Had never heard of him, but after spending the last few hours reading his website, and checking out his authenticity, I am truly impressed. I appreciate the info.

Hope you find a way to work this all out. Good luck.

Trauma Columnist · Nov 13, 2005

I too want to add my condolences. However, since there is little to nothing to be gained (since Ed is dead), I would probably just let it rest. On the other hand, my curiosity might get the best of me. Does this detective have it on some authority that coumadin, heparin, etc would still be present? The only reason I'm asking is because once a person is embalmed, chemical changes occur and some pre-morbid medications aren't detectable.

talaxandra · Nov 13, 2005

As if having all this happen in the first place wasn't hard enough... I'm so sorry that you've been asked to make such a difficult decision.

While I appreciate Tweety's point of view, I tend to agree with the other posters. From your POV there's nothing to be gained, and your family are going to have questions they never knew needed to be asked - if the autopsy doesn't reveal an anticoagulant then the window is still open on whether or not Ed contributed to your mother's death. If they do find blood thinners then your mother's relationship with Ed, and her death, are permanently coloured by this information. The fact that your mentally ill sister will be even more harmed, without gain to your family.

I appreciate that the other family have questions, but even if Ed did cause your mother's death, that doesn't mean that he was involved int he deaths of these other women.

You weren't kidding about how hard it is to find out information about post-mortem detection of anticoagulants. I'm posting the question (without any other information) on a writers' forum, and will let you know if I get any credible information.

tencat · Nov 13, 2005

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. If Ed were alive, then yes, I think that it would be good to cooperate and let them take another look, but since he's dead, what the heck is the point? I really don't see how the other people in this case can get any kind of peace from knowing that their loved one was murdered and the murderer is dead and beyond earthly justice......then you've got a whole different kind of grieving process to deal with......for what? You have every right to say no.

SmilingBluEyes · Nov 13, 2005

My condolences.....

I am truly sorry for your suffering.

I echo others who urge you to let it rest.

Corvette Guy · Nov 13, 2005

Bipley,

I have read the entire Thread did & I miss whether or not you desire to know the truth? I realize the other victims family members want to know the truth about Ed, or at least what happened to there loved ones. Let me make this perfectly clear... IMHO, only you have the right to make the final decision on to allow the detective to exam your deceased mother's remains.

Sounds like this Ed character had a lot of people fooled. He seemed like a nice fella, you say. Yet, your mother came up with some money missing, Ed was in the know in regard to pharmacology, and this detective surely is not telling you 100% of what he/she knows.

The truth is a powerful tool. Sometimes the truth is difficult to deal with, yet usually best to know in the long run. Your mother may hold the proverbial key to the truth that will set others free from the unknown, which is most often worse than the truth.

Someone suggested advice be taken from your sisters mental health care givers on how to explain all this to your sister. Sounds like an excellent idea. Maybe in some way your sister would find peace in knowing your mother was able to help someone [the detective] find the truth.

You asked for advice so, I say allow the detective to do his/her job to the fullest.

Bipley · Nov 13, 2005

I presume your challenged sister has doctors or counselers? Maybe they can advise on the best way to handle her to make it easier. Perhaps with some mild medication to help. That's a tough one.
Sorry for the trouble. Good luck.

Sadly, it's not that easy. We've never been able to get her totally stable on meds but right now she's probably as stable as she's going to get. I don't know how much I want to rock the boat right now and she's already a walking psych pharmacy.

I am not trying to be insensitive but if 'ED' is dead what is all the digging going to prove?

I agree. I have two issues, Ed is dead. What are they going to do, arrest him? If he was alive there wouldn't be a question and certainly, I would do it. But he's dead. Also, even if something was done to my Mom that doesn't prove anything regarding others.

The housekeeper did bleed out and she was supposed to be on Coumadin anyway for a history of PEs. But apparently her INR at the time of death was 12.

One question..at the time the housekeeper and her daughter died, wasn't there an investigation into the causes of death?

The housekeeper bled out with an INR of 12. Her daughter died of an OD of OxyContin, drove down an interstate, got out of the car and died. Yeah, I know. Weird. My grandmother died of COPD and pneumonia. She refused to go to a hospital.