I don't know what to do... I need advice

Nurses General Nursing

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I'll try to keep this short but I don't know if I can do that.

My Mom died of Esophageal Varices 11.5 years ago. She was an acoholic/addict. Her death was not a surprise, actually she survived a lot longer than I expected.

My Dad divorced my Mom about 15 years ago. He really tried but nothing any of us did made a difference. She was petitioned several times and she made it more than clear, she didn't want help.

The last two years of her life she was dating "Ed." Ed was also an alcoholic. Nice guy, but still a drunk. He actually did make my Mom happy, he was good to her, he asked her to marry him and she accepted. She died before their wedding day.

It should be noted that my parents were quite wealthy. Not only did my Mom get half of everything, she also got quite a sum monthly from my Dad. She wasn't a gutter bum, not by a long shot.

11.5 years ago I finally received the call. I live in AZ and she lived in IA. She was dead and they suspected Ed of killing her. That didn't ring true at the time and as it turns out, they realized it was simply that she bled out. He was covered in blood but he claimed that was from doing chest compressions. With each compression, blood sprayed from her mouth and covered Ed in blood. Ed was cleared, we had the funeral, it was finally over.

A year ago Ed was found dead in his home. Natural causes due to alcoholism. Not a big surprise there either.

Recently I received a call from a police detective in Iowa wanting permission to dig up my Mom. They suspect she was murdered. ??? My Mom was an acoholic in poor health, it was no surprise that she died. This makes no sense.

Turns out....

Ed was actually married before. He never told us this. His wife disappeared and they never found her body. They have every reason to believe she is dead. (Long story)

My grandmother (my Mom's Mom) was found dead in her home, Ed was there with her. I really never thought anything of it because she was a COPDer and her death was expected. However Ed was alone with her and she died.

After my Mom died her housekeeper moved in with Ed. She died, Ed was the only one at home.

After the housekeeper died her daughter moved in with Ed. She was found dead along the highway driving Ed's car. She also had his ATM card and had taken money from his account.

Wow... we have Ed's first wife, my grandmother, my mom, her housekeeper, and her housekeeper's daughter. That's a lot of women dying in Ed's life.

The police detective is just now figuring out all the above. He is convinced Ed killed my Mom. He believes he gave her something to make her bleed out. Coumadin? Heparin? Lovenox? Ed was a medic in the army and was pretty good with drugs. He had an amazing knowledge of pharmacology.

The police detective claims he does not have enough evidence against Ed to dig up my Mom's body. He would like my permission as it would make his job easier. Need I remind the detective that Ed is dead???

On one hand I have a mentally ill sister that would not do well discovering my Mom was murdered. My other sister would cope, but not well.

On the other hand the family members of my Mom's housekeeper and her daughter need some answers.

I don't know what to think.

My questions are.... Can they really determine if my Mom was given anticoag's causing her death? She's been dead for 11.5 years.

How do I determine which has more value, making my sister nuttier than she already is discovering that perhaps my Mom was murdered or giving the other family some answers?

I don't know what to do. Anyone have any suggestions? I'm especially interested in the anticoags issue. Does anyone have any info? I've researched this but unable to find anything reliable.

Specializes in Critical Care, Pediatrics, Geriatrics.
I don't know when he was married, remember... I didn't even know he ever was married. He was in his mid 50's when he was with my Mom and that was 11 years ago. So he could have been married at any point between 18-50. I'll have to ask the detective that, that would be a good question.

My grandmother died about 15 years ago, my Mom died 11 years ago, her housekeeper died about 7 years ago, and her daughter died about 3 years ago, Ed died a year ago.

I just looked at that, that's every four years. I really don't know exact dates except for my Mom and grandmother. The others are estimates.

I don't know if you ever watch shows on Court TV that profile murderers, but they usually have a period that they lay low after one murder until they have to do it again...and usually it is within similar increments of time. This is so disturbing...I can't even imagine being in your shoes.

Specializes in Critical Care, Pediatrics, Geriatrics.
I've been thinking a lot about this and I have come to the decision that I'm not going to sign anything. I may not be able to stop this detective in the future, but I'm not going to help him.If they find out Ed killed my Mom it isn't going to haunt me as much that he killed her, but what else was done? What won't I ever know about? I didn't talk to my Mom more than once or so for six months before she died. I tried, but she would never return my phone calls. That really wasn't unusual for her, she never wanted to call me when she was drinking and in the end she was always drinking so she just wouldn't return messages I left for her.......

...If I start thinking about it and fretting over it I'm going to start imagining horrors in the six months before she died that likely never happened. Now, if I would react that way, what in the world will go on in my sister's mind? I wouldn't even want to think about that....

...I'm not going to do it. But I want to thank everyone for their thoughts and opinions on this. It actually made a big difference.

Its good that you have come to a decision and that you have done it on your own. Who knows what the future would hold for you and your family if this got rehatched and the media got ahold of the story?! More than what you and your family need to deal with, after having to survive this already.

As far as your mother going thru anything horrible while she was alone with Ed...I feel you can rest assured that he was a peach to her to her face. His MO seems to be passive aggressive if everything happened the way you suspect.

Best of luck to you and your family.

Specializes in NICU.

Recently I received a call from a police detective in Iowa wanting permission to dig up my Mom. They suspect she was murdered. ??? My Mom was an acoholic in poor health, it was no surprise that she died. This makes no sense.

I'm sorry for your loss. After 11 years I don't know if I would want to do an autopsy, but SOMETHING has come up that made the investigators look into this case. That's what I would want to know, before I agreed to the request.

Investigators don't have time to work on cold cases, without a good reason...unless this detective specializes in cold cases, and it's still a little odd. Know that they don't tell you everything (my son is an investigator). Are they working in the last one and decided to look back? It seems to be a lot of effort now that he's dead.

I am amazed by your story. And glad that you have reached a decision you are comfortable with.

someone mentioned why are they bringing this up now? - I may have missed something, but were the other deaths considered to be suspicious in nature (meaning foul play possibly suggested) If so, could it possibly be in an effort to exonerate someone who is a suspect in one of the other suspicious deaths??? Or the investigtator is looking to solve a big case to get a feather in his cap, a promotion, or other career gain? Those are just random thoughts from a neutral observer, nothing more.

If I were in your shoes I think that I would respond the same as you have.

God bless you and your loved ones...the living and the dead, may you all find the peace you have been seeking after all this heartache.

I'm with you. There's nothing to be gained.

I'm sorry for your loss. After 11 years I don't know if I would want to do an autopsy, but SOMETHING has come up that made the investigators look into this case. That's what I would want to know, before I agreed to the request.

Investigators don't have time to work on cold cases, without a good reason...unless this detective specializes in cold cases, and it's still a little odd. Know that they don't tell you everything (my son is an investigator). Are they working in the last one and decided to look back? It seems to be a lot of effort now that he's dead.

He did give me a lot of information but I really wasn't hearing him. Hard to explain, he was telling me big info faster than I could process it.

I agree, it's a lot of effort for a dead man. It makes no sense to me.

I am amazed by your story. And glad that you have reached a decision you are comfortable with.

someone mentioned why are they bringing this up now? - I may have missed something, but were the other deaths considered to be suspicious in nature (meaning foul play possibly suggested) If so, could it possibly be in an effort to exonerate someone who is a suspect in one of the other suspicious deaths??? Or the investigtator is looking to solve a big case to get a feather in his cap, a promotion, or other career gain? Those are just random thoughts from a neutral observer, nothing more.

If I were in your shoes I think that I would respond the same as you have.

God bless you and your loved ones...the living and the dead, may you all find the peace you have been seeking after all this heartache.

I don't think it is to clear an innocent person because he was pretty clear, he felt Ed had something to do with all these deaths. Unless he isn't telling me the truth which won't get him far in digging up my Mom. However, if they had someone else they thought did it, they wouldn't even need my permission, I am assuming.

As for cold cases, I thought they only worked on those on TV! LOL

After 11 years I am over the worst part of losing my Mom, I'm not going to go out and ask to do that one again. We just lost my Dad six months ago. My sisters and I have enough to deal with, I'm not going to go out and ask for more.

I am truly sorry for your loss, Bipley. I can't even imagine what you're going through regarding this situation. I offer my sincerest condolences to you and your family.

Since several were interested in regards to the detection of anticoagulants in an autopsy, I looked it up and found some interesting things. Forensics, to me, is one of the most interesting fields of study and thought I might help out by researching it a little. I apologize if my research offends anyone.

Common anticoagulants: Heparin (intravenous), Warfarin (oral)

Warfarin is also used in rodenticides (aka rat poison).

Warfarin

General Information regarding Warfarin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warfarin

Warfarin Poisoning:

http://www.chemsoc.org/exemplarchem/entries/2002/hook/warfarin.htm

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1147572

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/pyrethrins-ziram/warfarin-ext.html

http://www.vetscite.org/publish/items/002125/

More Warfarin Information:

http://www.prn2.usm.my/mainsite/bulletin/sun/1997/sun12.html - Under "Low Toxicity Rodenticides"

".. Warfarin poisoning can cause spontaneous bleeding, usually from the nose, gums as well as the gastrointestinal and urinary tracts. Haemorrhage into the skin and brain can also occur, throuh this is less common. Ingestion of superwarfarin, on the other hand, can produce a prolonged coagulopathy in humans even with a single ingestion. This is thought to be associated with the firmer binding capability of superwarfarins to the lipophilic sites of the liver."

http://diddisdia.blogspot.com/2005_01_01_diddisdia_archive.html - Under "Clearly NOT the happiest place on earth..."

"... The mouse poison in question was reportedly the d-Con brand; d-Con's active ingredient is brodifacoum. This substance is classified as a superwarfarin, a family of potent, long-acting anticoagulants, or blood thinners. It is a relative of warfarin, an anticoagulant discovered in the 1940s by the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation; the foundation's scientists found the chemical in spoiled sweet-clover hay, which was causing fatal hemorrhaging in some cattle. Warfarin is still used today to prevent blood clots."

Brodifacoum

Autopsy information:

http://journalsip.astm.org/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/3107.htm

Google

Warfarin Poisoning

Autopsy: warfarin poisoning

Overdose of anticoagulants

Autopsy: detection of anticoagulants

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