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before i begin this thread, i'd like to take a moment for those that may not be familiar with what a fmf hospital corpsman is exactly, so that there is a better understanding of my frustration:
for seven boot camp-like, rifle-toting, blister-breaking weeks down south at camp lejeune, n.c., the navy and marine corps team up at field medical service school (fmss) east to mold standard navy-issue corpsmen into sailors good enough for the fleet marine force (fmf). the good ones will earn the marines' respect. the great ones earn the title, "doc." there are corpsmen and then there are 'docs.' a doc is someone you can count on. he's someone in your platoon that when something happens to one of our fellow marines, you can call on him and not have to worry. he's your buddy, a comrade in arms, a person who you count on to cover your back, to lay down fire, dig fighting holes or do whatever marines are doing. that's who a doc is. one of the first things a good fmf corpsman learns is that the very last thing he's worried about is himself. in combat it goes through your mind, 'ok, there's a guy that got shot, i can stay here and i'll be safe and if i do, that marine's probably going to die. having the self-confidence needed by a successful battlefield corpsman can grow and many of the scenarios the medical and marine corps advisors put their students through are centered on precisely that--building confidence in the sailors' knowledge and their abilities. the fmf corpsman are taught what the marine corps will demand of them from the very first day with boot camp-style inspections, relentless physical fitness training and unyielding tolerances for marine corps discipline, all the while being tested academically both in the classroom and in the field. being book- or street-smart alone isn't enough to make it as an fmf corpsman. you have to be both because being with marines means always thinking outside the box, way outside the box. navy corpsmen are one of the most combat decorated rating in the navy, and most of those medals were earned by corpsmen serving with their marines. it's a glory only a select few dare to chase. to become an fmf corpsman stems from a reputation the marine corps has for expecting a lot more responsibility from its junior personnel, especially their corpsmen and it's a character trait fmss instructors look for on the very first day of school. going greenside, fmf corpsman will have a lot more people depending on them to know what they have to do, and they will have the opportunity to do it. by serving with the marine corps they will learn more about what a corpsman ought to be sooner rather than later. as an fmf corpsman you have an immense amount of responsibility sometimes more than you really want. you have a group of marines whose medical care is assigned to you--just you. you are in charge of everything that happeneds to them and their medical records are your responsibility. fmf corpsman are in charge of making sure their marine's immunizations are up to date as well. if they get hurt you have to fix them, and if i get hurt they have to fix me. you're never going to be a leader of a group of individuals in a hospital as an e-2, but in the marine corps, when it comes to medical care for the marines, you are. and that's the most rewarding thing there is, to take a group of people like that into combat and bring them back alive. so in conclusion, the duties of a fmf hospital corpsman consist of and are not limited to:
assisting in prevention and treatment of disease and injuries;
caring for sick and injured;
administering immunization programs;
rendering emergency medical treatment;
instructing sailors and marines in first aid, self aid and personal hygiene procedures;
transporting the sick and injured;
conducting preliminary [color=#366388]physical examinations;
performing medical administrative, supply and accounting procedures;
maintaining treatment records and reports;
supervising shipboard and field environmental sanitation and [color=#366388]preventive medicine programs;
supervising air, water, food and habitability standards;
performing clinical laboratory tests and operating sophisticated laboratory equipment;
taking and processing x-rays and operating x-ray equipment;
filling prescriptions, maintaining pharmacy stock;
serving as operating room technicians for general and specialized surgery;
performing [color=#366388]preventive maintenance and repairs on biomedical equipment.
so, with all of that being said, i would like to share a situation that i encountered. today, i was informed by a 1 year civilian rn that as a fmf corpsman, i was inferior to her due to the fact that she was a rn and i was merely a military medic. further more she voiced her opinion (which i found quite undeducated) that due to her "formal" class room education, she was superior to me because i am not licensed and she is, stating that my level of education and skill is only that of a basic cna.
i found this to not only show her ignorance, but her extreme disrespect for our military service members who work in the medical field and put their lives on the line every day, and seeing how i am a fmf hospital corpsman and i am referred to as "doc" by my fellow marines, i took this quite personal. no i did not sit through your everyday civilian rn training and nor do i put myself above the ones that have, but by no means do i feel like my level of skill is in anyway inferior to a difference in training.
so, this is what i am asking the current and/or prior corpsman out there and the current and/or prior ed rn's out there: is this the attitude that is to be expected once i enter into the civilian world? is there really no respect for the men and women who serve our country performing the same level of critical care that you do, only we put our lives on the line in a time of combat to get the job done and take care of the ones that have put their lives on the line for your freedom?
i will close with a statement i heard once from a fellow service member: "to all of the civilians out there they may not respect or understand your countries military and what we are fighting for, late at night when you lay your head on your pillow and you wrap up in that warm blanket and go to sleep in peace, just remember, that blanket is called freedom which is provided for you by the same people you insult"
I was being polite earlier.What you had was a loss of your military bearing. There should NOT have been ANY heated debate with anyone whatsoever @ that facility. You did this during a "walk-thru". No one! Shouldn't have confronted anybody. Ultimately you brought shame to yourself, your unit and the Navy. Good luck with that...
It's typical EmergencyNrse, the reason I do not respect certain members/past members of the military is the fact that they all do seem to have a chip on their shoulder and are just waiting for anyone to set them off so they can pull the "Wah wah wah, no civilian respects me" card. I think people that serve in the military are great, and have met a lot of people and I truly respect what they are doing out there (fighting for our freedom for all of us idiots to post on this forum). But there's just too many of them expect everyone to salute them as they walk into every room and if you act disrespectful towards them in any way, they get ticked and say that no one respects the military anymore.
Nurse was rude, end of that story. Unfortunately, I have a sneaky suspicion this thread is fixing to go down an unproductive and inane path. Paramedic versus nurse anybody?
The nurse may have been rude, but we have only one person's perspective on this. I maintain that the OP's level defensiveness regarding this incident is quite disproportionate given the alleged statements by that nurse and the extremely few details supplied by the OP. Given this, and that I see no evidence that the OP is open to any criticism regarding this event, I agree with your observation about an unproductive an inane path.
before i begin this thread, i'd like to take a moment for those that may not be familiar with what a fmf hospital corpsman is exactly, so that there is a better understanding of my frustration:
for seven boot camp-like, rifle-toting, blister-breaking weeks down south at camp lejeune, n.c., the navy and marine corps team up at field medical service school (fmss) east to mold standard navy-issue corpsmen into sailors good enough for the fleet marine force (fmf). the good ones will earn the marines' respect. the great ones earn the title, "doc." there are corpsmen and then there are 'docs.' a doc is someone you can count on. he's someone in your platoon that when something happens to one of our fellow marines, you can call on him and not have to worry. he's your buddy, a comrade in arms, a person who you count on to cover your back, to lay down fire, dig fighting holes or do whatever marines are doing. that's who a doc is. one of the first things a good fmf corpsman learns is that the very last thing he's worried about is himself. in combat it goes through your mind, 'ok, there's a guy that got shot, i can stay here and i'll be safe and if i do, that marine's probably going to die. having the self-confidence needed by a successful battlefield corpsman can grow and many of the scenarios the medical and marine corps advisors put their students through are centered on precisely that--building confidence in the sailors' knowledge and their abilities. the fmf corpsman are taught what the marine corps will demand of them from the very first day with boot camp-style inspections, relentless physical fitness training and unyielding tolerances for marine corps discipline, all the while being tested academically both in the classroom and in the field. being book- or street-smart alone isn't enough to make it as an fmf corpsman. you have to be both because being with marines means always thinking outside the box, way outside the box. navy corpsmen are one of the most combat decorated rating in the navy, and most of those medals were earned by corpsmen serving with their marines. it's a glory only a select few dare to chase. to become an fmf corpsman stems from a reputation the marine corps has for expecting a lot more responsibility from its junior personnel, especially their corpsmen and it's a character trait fmss instructors look for on the very first day of school. going greenside, fmf corpsman will have a lot more people depending on them to know what they have to do, and they will have the opportunity to do it. by serving with the marine corps they will learn more about what a corpsman ought to be sooner rather than later. as an fmf corpsman you have an immense amount of responsibility sometimes more than you really want. you have a group of marines whose medical care is assigned to you--just you. you are in charge of everything that happeneds to them and their medical records are your responsibility. fmf corpsman are in charge of making sure their marine's immunizations are up to date as well. if they get hurt you have to fix them, and if i get hurt they have to fix me. you're never going to be a leader of a group of individuals in a hospital as an e-2, but in the marine corps, when it comes to medical care for the marines, you are. and that's the most rewarding thing there is, to take a group of people like that into combat and bring them back alive. so in conclusion, the duties of a fmf hospital corpsman consist of and are not limited to:
assisting in prevention and treatment of disease and injuries;
caring for sick and injured;
administering immunization programs;
rendering emergency medical treatment;
instructing sailors and marines in first aid, self aid and personal hygiene procedures;
transporting the sick and injured;
conducting preliminary [color=#366388]physical examinations;
performing medical administrative, supply and accounting procedures;
maintaining treatment records and reports;
supervising shipboard and field environmental sanitation and [color=#366388]preventive medicine programs;
supervising air, water, food and habitability standards;
performing clinical laboratory tests and operating sophisticated laboratory equipment;
taking and processing x-rays and operating x-ray equipment;
filling prescriptions, maintaining pharmacy stock;
serving as operating room technicians for general and specialized surgery;
performing [color=#366388]preventive maintenance and repairs on biomedical equipment.
so, with all of that being said, i would like to share a situation that i encountered. today, i was informed by a 1 year civilian rn that as a fmf corpsman, i was inferior to her due to the fact that she was a rn and i was merely a military medic. further more she voiced her opinion (which i found quite undeducated) that due to her "formal" class room education, she was superior to me because i am not licensed and she is, stating that my level of education and skill is only that of a basic cna.
i found this to not only show her ignorance, but her extreme disrespect for our military service members who work in the medical field and put their lives on the line every day, and seeing how i am a fmf hospital corpsman and i am referred to as "doc" by my fellow marines, i took this quite personal. no i did not sit through your everyday civilian rn training and nor do i put myself above the ones that have, but by no means do i feel like my level of skill is in anyway inferior to a difference in training.
so, this is what i am asking the current and/or prior corpsman out there and the current and/or prior ed rn's out there: is this the attitude that is to be expected once i enter into the civilian world? is there really no respect for the men and women who serve our country performing the same level of critical care that you do, only we put our lives on the line in a time of combat to get the job done and take care of the ones that have put their lives on the line for your freedom?
i will close with a statement i heard once from a fellow service member: "to all of the civilians out there they may not respect or understand your countries military and what we are fighting for, late at night when you lay your head on your pillow and you wrap up in that warm blanket and go to sleep in peace, just remember, that blanket is called freedom which is provided for you by the same people you insult"
unfortunately, you've come across a common stumbling block for many who have served in the military. it's a different world, with different responsibilities and educational backgrounds. i don't know if there will ever be a meshing of the two worlds regarding experiences and practice.
i actually did a travel nurse assignment down in jacksonville, nc and met some great people who serve this country, many of that were in the service. do i have a tremendous amount of respect and compassion for all you and your families go through to serve this country? absolutley! am i indebted to you for your service to provide me with the safety and security i can have in my life? absolutley.
having said all that, i have to say that your post doesn't do much to try to bridge that gap between the civilian and military world. yes, i realize you go through a lot of training and more than likely have great assessment skills. unfortunately, your training can't translate in the civilian world to a licensed professional. does that make me better than you? no, just different. does that give me a right to disrespect the information you may bring to the table? absolutely not. but, because i don't have your training, does that make me inferior? nope. i have over 12 years experience in the critical care field, does that make me proficient to practice in your world? i might be able to carry out some of your responsibilities but not all, i have no doubt. could you function in my world? i'd guess it's be the same situation but with a big difference: you legally wouldn't be allowed to, due to civilian law. and while that is a shame, it is unfortunately the way things currently are.
let me give you what i feel would be a relevant example: paramedics are frequently seeking out employment in hospital er's. in many facilities, they are extremely limited in their duties due to "regulations". do i think they aren't as smart as me? heck no! do i think it's a shame they aren't allowed to practice to their full potential? absolutley! you know what i think is more of a shame? they can do things in the field i can't do inhouse...intubations being a perfect example. while i am acls certified and can spend hours practicing intubation, by policy i'm not allowed. it's not against the nurse practice act in my state, just policy. these fellow healthcare professionals can do this in the field and the many that are my friends are awesome at it! however, inhouse they are used primarily for transport and cna duties. they have accepted their roles inhouse for the basic need to feed their families. and i find that crazy...they are healthcare professionals, first responders who can do things i can only dream of and are being utilized as transporters. but, on the other side of the coin..i can do things they can only dream of. both practices are valuable for different reasons. and both practices face frequent disrespect for the knowledge we bring to the table. it's a struggle for professional recognition for all of us.
that all being said, please remember one of my favorite eleanor roosevelt quotes: "no one can make you feel inferior without your permission". this person exhibited a gross misunderstanding of what you bring to the table. is that a shame? yes. but don't turn someone else's ignorance into a heated rant, which is honestly what you are doing here. i'm guessing you've struggled for the recognition you so rightly deserved. that is common to many different pracitioners in the health care field. but remember...educate those who need educating but ignore those who try to drag your practice down. don't give them the power to impact your life in such a negative way. good luck to you as you continue on your career path.
Sailor,
Let me qualify first. Army medic (NCO) now civilian ED RN. Military roles are completely different from the civilian world. One of the biggest things about being an RN is knowing your legal limitations. Skills sets/duties can vary greatly even by state within the same title/license/profession. I understand your training and what you have been through but what are you doing getting into an argument outside of your lines with an RN (if he/she is an officer, you really stepped out of bounds). You are trained to be the end all medically speaking when and only when a higher level of care is unavailable in the field, when in garrison you know you have limitations. You and I both know there are plenty of situations that are above your scope and skill level. Do you know the RN's role/training etc? Now do I think it was appropriate for her to be bashing your skill set? Absolutely not however, you need to understand that if you are to be working in the U.S. at hospital military or not, there are things you can and cannot do and it sounds to me like you don't like someone telling you that. I have never been spoken to in a demeaning manner by nurses/physicians about my service job at the same time I had to understand my role/limitations when I was in their house. Remember she may only have one year of experience, but in that setting that is one more than you. I know you Marines (including Corpsmen here) have a lot of pride and you should (you have my respect for that) but check that attitude before you come out of the field or you are going to have a tough time readjusting to the civilian world. I am not saying you are.... but your post makes you sound immature, so be careful because this community is smaller than you think.
I've said here before that the paramedic education and the RN education are like apples and oranges. They're both fruit so there is some overlap, but they differ. I know this, having both sets of letters behind my name. If that makes me and apple AND and orange, so be it. I know that the military medic personnel generally have a larger skill set than the civilian paramedic, which puts them somewhere between ... unfortunately it doesn't come with the "RN" that would translate in the civilian world and in the civilian hospital.
I also want to remind everyone to play nicely and keep it civil; I'd like to see this thread continue in a constructive manner. Thanks. :)
This debate has also come up with the transition from military to civilian Paramedic. That also can be difficult. The military medic is very well versed in trauma and the ailments of young people who are healthy enough to serve in a combat situation. However, their expertise for the 80 y/o multi-system failure patient is weak. However, those who work in military hospitals where there is a broader patient population may have additional training, education and experience.
when iread your post you didn't come across as angry, you felt offended by the lack of respect from the nurse that told you that you were inferior to her.
i see from your post that you were just wanting respect and are surprised by the lack of it from some people, and i am as well.
i want to thank you as you've been brave enough to sign on that dotted line, thank you for your service and for wanting to help others.
all i see from your side is respect, i believe on the situation you told us, the nurse was the one that approached you with disrespect.
god bless,
Just wondering are you in nursing school? I think part of the problem is that most people on here are looking at it from one point of view R.N. or medic while being a medic helps alot in school and in an emergency it is still working with very young pts. that are in the best shape of their lives while R.N.s tend to work with all types also being a medic helps with the skills part of school but I still have to study very hard oh I just wanted to say that the army has enlisted nurses that work in hospitials so some of those medics do know a little something I think if you don't know both sides you really can't say what the other knows and doesn't know
EmergencyNrse
632 Posts
i was being polite earlier.
what you had was a loss of your military bearing. there should not have been any heated debate with anyone whatsoever @ that facility. you did this during a "walk-thru". no one! shouldn't have confronted anybody. ultimately you brought shame to yourself, your unit and the navy. good luck with that...