Heated debate between Civilian ED RN and FMF Hospital Corpsman.

[testing109]

before i begin this thread, i'd like to take a moment for those that may not be familiar with what a fmf hospital corpsman is exactly, so that there is a better understanding of my frustration:

for seven boot camp-like, rifle-toting, blister-breaking weeks down south at camp lejeune, n.c., the navy and marine corps team up at field medical service school (fmss) east to mold standard navy-issue corpsmen into sailors good enough for the fleet marine force (fmf). the good ones will earn the marines' respect. the great ones earn the title, "doc." there are corpsmen and then there are 'docs.' a doc is someone you can count on. he's someone in your platoon that when something happens to one of our fellow marines, you can call on him and not have to worry. he's your buddy, a comrade in arms, a person who you count on to cover your back, to lay down fire, dig fighting holes or do whatever marines are doing. that's who a doc is. one of the first things a good fmf corpsman learns is that the very last thing he's worried about is himself. in combat it goes through your mind, 'ok, there's a guy that got shot, i can stay here and i'll be safe and if i do, that marine's probably going to die. having the self-confidence needed by a successful battlefield corpsman can grow and many of the scenarios the medical and marine corps advisors put their students through are centered on precisely that--building confidence in the sailors' knowledge and their abilities. the fmf corpsman are taught what the marine corps will demand of them from the very first day with boot camp-style inspections, relentless physical fitness training and unyielding tolerances for marine corps discipline, all the while being tested academically both in the classroom and in the field. being book- or street-smart alone isn't enough to make it as an fmf corpsman. you have to be both because being with marines means always thinking outside the box, way outside the box. navy corpsmen are one of the most combat decorated rating in the navy, and most of those medals were earned by corpsmen serving with their marines. it's a glory only a select few dare to chase. to become an fmf corpsman stems from a reputation the marine corps has for expecting a lot more responsibility from its junior personnel, especially their corpsmen and it's a character trait fmss instructors look for on the very first day of school. going greenside, fmf corpsman will have a lot more people depending on them to know what they have to do, and they will have the opportunity to do it. by serving with the marine corps they will learn more about what a corpsman ought to be sooner rather than later. as an fmf corpsman you have an immense amount of responsibility sometimes more than you really want. you have a group of marines whose medical care is assigned to you--just you. you are in charge of everything that happeneds to them and their medical records are your responsibility. fmf corpsman are in charge of making sure their marine's immunizations are up to date as well. if they get hurt you have to fix them, and if i get hurt they have to fix me. you're never going to be a leader of a group of individuals in a hospital as an e-2, but in the marine corps, when it comes to medical care for the marines, you are. and that's the most rewarding thing there is, to take a group of people like that into combat and bring them back alive. so in conclusion, the duties of a fmf hospital corpsman consist of and are not limited to:

assisting in prevention and treatment of disease and injuries;

caring for sick and injured;

administering immunization programs;

rendering emergency medical treatment;

instructing sailors and marines in first aid, self aid and personal hygiene procedures;

transporting the sick and injured;

conducting preliminary [color=#366388]physical examinations;

performing medical administrative, supply and accounting procedures;

maintaining treatment records and reports;

supervising shipboard and field environmental sanitation and [color=#366388]preventive medicine programs;

supervising air, water, food and habitability standards;

performing clinical laboratory tests and operating sophisticated laboratory equipment;

taking and processing x-rays and operating x-ray equipment;

filling prescriptions, maintaining pharmacy stock;

serving as operating room technicians for general and specialized surgery;

performing [color=#366388]preventive maintenance and repairs on biomedical equipment.

so, with all of that being said, i would like to share a situation that i encountered. today, i was informed by a 1 year civilian rn that as a fmf corpsman, i was inferior to her due to the fact that she was a rn and i was merely a military medic. further more she voiced her opinion (which i found quite undeducated) that due to her "formal" class room education, she was superior to me because i am not licensed and she is, stating that my level of education and skill is only that of a basic cna.

i found this to not only show her ignorance, but her extreme disrespect for our military service members who work in the medical field and put their lives on the line every day, and seeing how i am a fmf hospital corpsman and i am referred to as "doc" by my fellow marines, i took this quite personal. no i did not sit through your everyday civilian rn training and nor do i put myself above the ones that have, but by no means do i feel like my level of skill is in anyway inferior to a difference in training.

so, this is what i am asking the current and/or prior corpsman out there and the current and/or prior ed rn's out there: is this the attitude that is to be expected once i enter into the civilian world? is there really no respect for the men and women who serve our country performing the same level of critical care that you do, only we put our lives on the line in a time of combat to get the job done and take care of the ones that have put their lives on the line for your freedom?

i will close with a statement i heard once from a fellow service member: "to all of the civilians out there they may not respect or understand your countries military and what we are fighting for, late at night when you lay your head on your pillow and you wrap up in that warm blanket and go to sleep in peace, just remember, that blanket is called freedom which is provided for you by the same people you insult"

[ImThatGuy, BSN, RN]

At the risk of being ostracized here I'll say a few of things

-You rock

-I start an RN program in a couple of weeks to make a career change or to give me other career options...I'm not certain yet, lol

-I've been a paramedic off and on before (not my primary job)

-Most nurses seem averse to anyone with -medic- in their occupational title, which is what you are to that RN

Get past it. Whoever you were talking to was a fluffbag moron. Vent and be done with it. Stay safe and watch your six.

[Lunah, MSN, RN]

People who don't have any direct knowledge of medic/paramedic/anything-medic education are usually quite ignorant about what that education entails. Thank you for your service.

[grandmawrinkle]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a fellow nurse. I apologize on behalf of all of us. I am going to say, however, that you seem extremely defensive about all the issues you posted above. That was mostly just an angry rant, if I've ever seen one.

Said nurse was uneducated about your position in the military, as am I, and I am a civilian RN at a federal facility. Just because we **should** know something about your training, doesn't mean we do, and it doesn't mean that we all have had the opportunity learn about what it is that you do. So, give us a break, please, if we're not nasty or rude to you about it.

The US military seems to have a long reputation with us civilians for training medical personnel on their own terms. They more or less get away with it because of the entity that the US military is. I'm not saying that it's good or bad, but, unfortunately, US military training in many procedures does not transfer into the ability to utilize those skills in the private sector, and ... you have already found out why. It's because the US military did not educate you at a level to be able to sit for the NCLEX or another board that would give you a license. Some people may translate that reality into believing that you don't know anything and have no training/skills, as you have found out as well. It doesn't make it true. Try not to take it so personally.

I very much respect all military men/women, and come from a long line of them myself, although that wasn't my own personal choice. You will encounter all types when you get out of the service. Likely the federal/government sector of employment will be a little kinder to you, but I know many servicemen that have chosen to work in the private sector after they get out, as well.

[ImThatGuy, BSN, RN]

Yeah, I'd say the RN in question was pretty dang rude about it by doc's account of it. It's likely all true and accurate too, lol.

[msn10]

Her response is the reason my father believed that every 18 year old American should be required to do at least 1 year of military service before going to college; nobody really gets it unless they serve.

7 men in my family and my niece are or were in the military. Many nurses have a great deal of respect for military personnel and you will find many of them working in civilian hospitals.

This little pumpkin that you had the discussion with is obviously unaware of the great big world out there and has no idea of what you have been through; and I am truly not trying to be condescending to her. I thought I knew everything at 21, now I just smile at those who have an inflated perception of their knowledge base and smile.

If you have seen as much military action as it sounds, then you have the discipline to ignore her comments. If she is young and only been out of school for a year than it sounds like she is very young and naive.

Don't you remember knowing everything when you were younger?

[Daisy Doodle]

I agree with Lunah, this is a common notion. I struggled with it when I got out of the military.

I was FMF and when I got out of the military I worked as a CNA to get through nursing school. I notified many a nurse of subtle changes in a patients status that they had not noticed. The difference is, is that the Nursing approach to patient care is different than what we have been taught as Corpsman.

As a Doc, I knew if "A" happened then I should do "C". In many cases I really didn't know the *rationale* as to why I was doing it. An example was if there was a blunt trauma to the head and the ICP increased to X amount- I was told to give mannitol as a pre-specified amount and complete neuro checks. I wasn't exactly clear as to what mannitol was or or the the exact A&P of it all.

I don't think that one is better or more educated than the other. I have worked with many Outstanding Doc's and some dingy RN's and visa versa. Both groups fundamentally approach pt care differently..

Daisy

[Neveranurseagain, RN]

People who have no experience with the military just don't get it. She never will, unless she is indocturnated into military ways. Please pardon her--her ignorance is showing.

Thank you for serving our country. I never served, but am a former 2nd Lt, Civil AIr Patrol Medical Officer.

[Mulan]

There is a lot you can do as a Navy corpsman, but it does not translate to the civilian world.

[testing109]

I may need to apologize for turning this thread into something that could be perceived as a rant because I happen to take my role as a FMF Corpsman quite serious and yes I can get past it. Maybe I should explain a little more about the "attitude" I was given seeing how I did spend a lot of time explaining my job. This was NOT a young, 21 year old girl, this actually happend to be someone around my age, and I am in my 30's. I am guessing she started late in life with her career, I don't really know. But what offended me the most was the level of her arrogance and snobby attitude towards me, like I was some bum off the street that had no business being in "HER" ED. So please excuse me if you read this as a rant, but I am just as passionate about my job and what I do and the level of responsibility that it carries as the next person or RN. I just wanted to see if this is the normal response or situation that I am going to encounter frequently. I guess I just did not realize the disconnect between Civilian Providers and Military Providers, in fact I find it quite sad.

For those who backed me up and understood what I was trying to say, thank you.

[EmergencyNrse]

I want to try and respond without the "been there, done that" position

however, without having been there to see what transpired all I can say

is that you shouldn't come over to a nursing forum crying about how a nurse

treated you in situation.

Have you been through a nurse program?

If you're entering the civilian world with such a tremendous chip on your

shoulder I would stay away from medicine unless its pre-hospital.

Working on "the bus", fire, police.

"...but by no means do I feel like my level of skill is in anyway inferior to a difference in training."

You're showing your ignorance. I appreciate your position, your experience

and training but it's apples and oranges my friend. If you find yourself as a

guest again in a civilian hospital for training purposes try an open mind that

is receptive to learning.

Respect is a two-way street. There are @$$-hats everywhere and in every

institution that seem to want to play the superior-card. Be the better man and

just let it go. Someday you too might try the nursing route and you will then

understand the things you think you know about and what we do.

Thank you for your service but you're so very wrong here.

[testing109]

MULAN, yeah thanks for the heads up on the transition tip, but I think I have that covered

So the motto of the day is "serve our country, fight for our freedom, keep our soldiers alive, but come back to civilian life and you're nothing" I guess I should have just sat in the classroom like a good little boy.

This is what is wrong with our country today.