I get the basics- the radical left is trying to take our freedom and turn us into obedient sheep. But, there are a couple parts of the anti-vax narrative I am having trouble following:
1- The role of the doctors. Actual doctors are overwhelmingly pushing for vaccinations. is it because they have been duped, or are they in on the con? From the anti-vax viewpoint, are they part of the liberal agenda to subjugate all Americans? Really weird, because doctors are as politically split as the rest of the country. Plenty of conservative republican doctors. Why can't they see this power grab?
2- The Flu. Somehow the fact that flu is way down is being used as part of the narrative. I am completely missing this. Obviously with masks and precautions flu is down. But, somehow, this is being used as proof of something, and I don't get it.
Serious questions. I won't debate anybody here. I really want to understand how these two things fir in.
Indeed. My brother and nephew are committed capitalists. My brother married into a wealthy family so my nephew has a trust fund that saves him from having to save for a mortgage down payment or consider what his degree in design cost. He sees everything through a political lens where liberal is bad. We managed to have a family relationship until Trump. Trump made all interactions strained...and then the covid lies and idiocy just broke it. They refuse to respond to me or my family now because we encouraged them to vaccinate. It's tragic.
From what you say it sounds like they voted for Trump and you point out that they have money. PLEASE tell me you know a lot of democrats are wealthy as well. Including the top richest people in America. AL Gore's money came from oil. Why do people always put rich and GOP in the same sentence? Have they bothered to look up how much democrats make? Were Obama's family now lives? How much CEOs (mostly liberals make). I have a few members of my family not talking to me because I believe it is a person's choice, but they are democrat, so I guess it depends on who you ask. I am sure everyone has those strained family stories now.
I get the basics- the radical left is trying to take our freedom and turn us into obedient sheep. But, there are a couple parts of the anti-vax narrative I am having trouble following:
1- The role of the doctors. Actual doctors are overwhelmingly pushing for vaccinations. is it because they have been duped, or are they in on the con? From the anti-vax viewpoint, are they part of the liberal agenda to subjugate all Americans? Really weird, because doctors are as politically split as the rest of the country. Plenty of conservative republican doctors. Why can't they see this power grab?
2- The Flu. Somehow the fact that flu is way down is being used as part of the narrative. I am completely missing this. Obviously with masks and precautions flu is down. But, somehow, this is being used as proof of something, and I don't get it.
Serious questions. I won't debate anybody here. I really want to understand how these two things fir in.
On 9/17/2021 at 1:55 AM, hherrn said:
I am actually waiting to hear from some of the members of this forum from that camp.
I suspect that you won’t get your questions answered by those who hold these positions. The viewpoints are hard to defend with logic and it becomes very noticeable when they attempt to verbalize a rationale.
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I am both amused and saddened by the politicization that defines many Americans views on Covid and vaccines. As a Scandinavian I find this acrimonious left/right divide on whether it’s smart to get vaccinated against an infectious disease, really weird.
I’ve mentioned the following before just to demonstrate how different things can be in another country. We don’t have any mandates. No vaccine mandates and no ”Covid passports”.
The conservative parties have suggested vaccine mandates for certain professions and vaccine passports for certain venues. But since they are in oppostion and the Social Democrats (yes, the left..) are in government, that’s not likely to happen.
Here the Conservatives argue that we need to have stricter rules and mandates, whereas the Social Democrats argue that given the opportunity, people will do the right thing to protect themselves, their families and society as a whole. The left also says that liberty and freedom of choice regarding our own bodies, is a long-standing tradition of ours that we should protect.
Do you guys even understand how much of a difference an ocean apart can make? ? And why have been rolling my eyes for this last year when posting here and being accused of being a ”Commie” and vaccine-Nazi.
At this point in time 83.5% of people over the age of 16 have recieved their first vaccine dose (and most of those have gotten their second dose, but vaccinations are ongoing).
The demographics that are hardest to reach are foreign-born citizens and people with the lowest incomes and least formal education. It’s the same demographics we struggle to convince regarding other preventive measures as well. So it’s not political persuasion that predicts whether you’ve already gotten vaccinated here, it’s socioeconomic status.
The public health authorities are striving for a vaccine coverage of at least 90% of all eligible persons. But the goal is to get there through outreach programs and information, not mandates.
Some of our neighboring countries have chosen different strategies and actually demand ”Covid passports” for people to be able to enter various public venues, including for example bars and restaurants. They have a slightly higher vaccine uptake due to the fact that more younger adults have chosen to get vaccinated, because they don’t want to forgo their restaurant dining and partying. I have to say, I’m actually glad that we haven’t gone that route. But I also hope that we’ll see an uptick in vaccinations. 83.5% is decent, but there is definitely room for improvement.
I’m curious what any poster who thinks that only liberals push vaccine mandates and mitigation strategies as social distancing and mask wearing, think of what I’ve described above?
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OP’s first question always amuses me. (Well, not his question per se, but rather the folks that think that doctors ”are in on it” or duped). We have plenty of Covid cases in European countries with universal healthcare. Healthcare is a cost for the taxpayers and no doctor would stand to gain monetarily from promoting vaccines. They recommend vaccines because they know that it makes public health sense to get vaccinated.
I'm waiting to hear from that camp as well. How is it possible that around the world all the doctors and hospitals decided to jump on the liberal agenda to take away freedoms. Because it's not just an American thing, it's a world wide phenomenon, especially in Europe, Australia and New Zealand that people are being vaccinated, requiring vaccinations, and taking away freedoms.
I just can't wrap my head around how this was all coordinated and they all agreed to do this. We're talking millions of people getting together to dupe society.
The only explanation I can come up with is that some liberal alien is doing mind control.
Or, there are a lot of emotional,uneducated, juvenile, idiotic people out there!
Old trope, men not asking for directions, resulting in a dangerous encounter when hopelessly lost. According to the movies anyway.
Why? PRIDE? Machismo?
So for the sake of pride an individual will drive the bus over a cliff! You will find similar shipwrecks, littered all through the life of this person. Cutting their nose to spite their face.
These are dangerous people, driven by emotion instead of logical choices. You can't ever trust someone like that to not eventually ruin your life. Which is exactly what they are doing to the world. They care only about themselves and how they feel. Never about the collective good.
Run into such people all the time in Psych. Destroying the lives of all the people around them through their selfishness, because it's not enough to have the privacy of your own thoughts to indulge in your paranoia, ignore all the people you can hurt and share the madness with everyone, so they can feel equally as bad as you! Ignore all of your previous screw ups because this time you are right because you have such a history of making great choices!
So as they are driving the bus over the cliff, let's all respect their rights of free speech and try not to hurt their delicate feelings, because THEY HAVE shown just how considerate they are while KILLING US!
I'm just hoping they're always lucky. This infection doesn't care what political belief people worship. I just got a call. My uncle is in ICU after he went out to a party with his friends. All the families and I warned him that he was highly susceptible to catch this virus. He is immunocompromised and unable to get the vaccines. His lungs are bad. I don't think his friends can help him breathe for him.
Sorry to hear that, Honyebee. Denial certainly isn't working in our favor and I have no idea how to help people work through it.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
3 hours ago, macawake said:
I’m curious what any poster who thinks that only liberals push vaccine mandates and mitigation strategies as social distancing and mask wearing, think of what I’ve described above?
Very many American conservatives are broadly influenced by propaganda. This is evident in their very narrow media consumption and the inaccurate and inflammatory beliefs that they share from those sources. This country is in trouble when so many of the population has been convinced that the best thing for the country is to undermine our elections with lies about fraud and fraudulent elections audits.
Specializes in Physiology, CM, consulting, nsg edu, LNC, COB.
On 9/18/2021 at 7:18 PM, lMCRN said:
You have not met one person tell you they don’t believe in masks? Lucky ones to have heard stories, that is such an odd statement.
I was in the post office briefly last week (we don’t get home delivery here, we all have PO Boxes so we have to go there) and asked a woman “Where’s your mask?” She said she didn’t need one bec she was vaccinated. I told her she could still carry and spread viral particles even so, and she almost spit in my eye on her way out.
Specializes in Physiology, CM, consulting, nsg edu, LNC, COB.
On 9/20/2021 at 2:48 AM, nursel56 said:
Also I recall Fox News sounding the alarm that if you are hospitalized with Covid and die in the usual manner (one or more vital organs shut down) they record it as a Covid death when they should be recording as respiratory failure or cardiac arrest, and the virus was an innocent bystander.
Undoubtedly this works into the numbers padding scheme as well.
You can get death certificates from your local Dept of Public Health or medical examiners office. You will see that these are the people who would not have died that week of their DM, CHF, COPD, cancer, or obesity, but they died because they contracted COVID on top of one or more those.
That’s precisely the idea of “increased risk factors” of *death from COVID* they’re talking about. Works the same way for influenza.
We have heard of families who have begged their PCPs not to put COVID in the death record because they are embarrassed to admit that a fake, nonexistent, librul-conspiracy disease is what killed grandma or daddy. Future research into past medical records will clarify some of those…
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
6 minutes ago, Hannahbanana said:
You will see that these are the people who would not have died that week of their DM, CHF, COPD, cancer, or obesity, but they died because they contracted COVID on top of one or more those.
As they've always done for those infectious diseases the public health agencies have compiled statistics for in the past.
It especially infuriates me when somebody like Brit Hume tells people a PCP recording an accurate cause of death is somehow improper or unusual. When he worked for NBC he seemed to understand the boundaries of his role as a journalist and people trusted him.
So the misinformation spreads and now providers are harassed by families for doing their jobs properly? ?
Specializes in Travel Nurse, All ICU specialties and ED.
On 9/18/2021 at 3:48 AM, RKM2021 said:
I have not seen these patients. You guys must be the lucky few to have such wild stories. Most of the ones I know state they are unsure about it. I have not had one person tell me they don't believe in masks, washing hands, COVID or anything around that. Most of them are concerned and have valid questions.
I must have missed people making fun of patients? The stories I have read are people reacting to absurd situations in public settings. Those are not "patients"... That's like saying laughing at those crazy "people of walmart" pictures is bullying.
I must have missed people making fun of patients? The stories I have read are people reacting to absurd situations in public settings. Those are not "patients"... That's like saying laughing at those crazy "people of walmart" pictures is bullying.
If you look at the post history, you see one non-covid posts, 114 (ish) covid posts with the same theme and angle and language as multiple posters with similar profiles.
Probably just a coincidence.
Oddly, I don't see this pattern in other sub-forums, though it does pop up during politically polarizing times.
You can get death certificates from your local Dept of Public Health or medical examiners office. You will see that these are the people who would not have died that week of their DM, CHF, COPD, cancer, or obesity, but they died because they contracted COVID on top of one or more those.
That’s precisely the idea of “increased risk factors” of *death from COVID* they’re talking about. Works the same way for influenza.
We have heard of families who have begged their PCPs not to put COVID in the death record because they are embarrassed to admit that a fake, nonexistent, librul-conspiracy disease is what killed grandma or daddy. Future research into past medical records will clarify some of those…
Do you really think that if they are so ignorant as to reject vaccines or masks that they are insightful enough to engineer a death certificate re covid related?
Stupid people almost inevitably arrive at stupid conclusions!
Guest1171160
127 Posts
From what you say it sounds like they voted for Trump and you point out that they have money. PLEASE tell me you know a lot of democrats are wealthy as well. Including the top richest people in America. AL Gore's money came from oil. Why do people always put rich and GOP in the same sentence? Have they bothered to look up how much democrats make? Were Obama's family now lives? How much CEOs (mostly liberals make). I have a few members of my family not talking to me because I believe it is a person's choice, but they are democrat, so I guess it depends on who you ask. I am sure everyone has those strained family stories now.