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Having Trouble Following The Narrative

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I get the basics- the radical left is trying to take our freedom and turn us into obedient sheep. But, there are a couple parts of the anti-vax narrative I am having trouble following:

1- The role of the doctors.  Actual doctors are overwhelmingly pushing for vaccinations.  is it because they have been duped, or are they in on the con?  From the anti-vax viewpoint, are they part of the liberal agenda to subjugate all Americans?  Really weird, because doctors are as politically split as the rest of the country.  Plenty of conservative republican doctors.  Why can't they see this power grab?

2- The Flu.  Somehow the fact that flu is way down is being used as part of the narrative.  I am completely missing this.  Obviously with masks and precautions flu is down.  But, somehow, this is being used as proof of something, and I don't get it.

Serious questions.  I won't debate anybody here. I really want to understand how these two things fir in.

BostonFNP, APRN

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine. Has 10 years experience.

In my role as a PCP, in a location of mixed political persuasions but predominantly white low-middle income population with good access to care, I have conversations about vaccines dozens of times a day with patients. 
 

For most of those left unvaccinated these days, the decision not to get the shot is predominately emotional and political. There is no rational or cohesive reason for not vaccinating. I’ve seen more people recently get vaccinated for other reasons: work, travel, attending sporting or social events, or even financial consideration. 
 

I have colleagues that work in more diverse populations and in populations with poor access to care that have a different set of reasons for not vaccinating and those are more rational reasons with a better success rate.

nursej22, MSN, RN

Specializes in Public Health, TB. Has 36 years experience.

I too live among a diverse population in a rural area. The predominant reasons I hear are

1. Political: don't trust the current governor or president. They think the only reason providers are recommending the vaccine is that somehow they get a kickback for every vaccine they give. 

2. Believe myths that vaccine is more harmful than infection. This is rampant in the farm worker population. 

Just now, nursej22 said:

I too live among a diverse population in a rural area. The predominant reasons I hear are

1. Political: don't trust the current governor or president. They think the only reason providers are recommending the vaccine is that somehow they get a kickback for every vaccine they give. 

2. Believe myths that vaccine is more harmful than infection. This is rampant in the farm worker population. 

Interesting- actually believe that doc are in on the scam.

nursej22, MSN, RN

Specializes in Public Health, TB. Has 36 years experience.

1 minute ago, hherrn said:

Interesting- actually believe that doc are in on the scam.

This ties in with the notion that hospitals are padding their numbers because they get higher reimbursement for COVID patients. 

I am actually waiting to hear from some of the members of this forum from that camp.

Tweety, BSN, RN

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac. Has 29 years experience.

46 minutes ago, hherrn said:

I am actually waiting to hear from some of the members of this forum from that camp.

I'm waiting to hear from that camp as well.  How is it possible that around the world all the doctors and hospitals decided to jump on the liberal agenda to take away freedoms.  Because it's not just an American thing, it's a world wide phenomenon, especially in Europe, Australia and New Zealand that people are being vaccinated, requiring vaccinations, and taking away freedoms. 

I just can't wrap my head around how this was all coordinated and they all agreed to do this.  We're talking millions of people getting together to dupe society. 

The only explanation I can come up with is that some liberal alien is doing mind control. 

Edited by Tweety

jive turkey

Specializes in A variety. Has 9 years experience.

2 hours ago, hherrn said:

I get the basics- the radical left is trying to take our freedom and turn us into obedient sheep. But, there are a couple parts of the anti-vax narrative I am having trouble following:

1- The role of the doctors.  Actual doctors are overwhelmingly pushing for vaccinations.  is it because they have been duped, or are they in on the con?  From the anti-vax viewpoint, are they part of the liberal agenda to subjugate all Americans?  Really weird, because doctors are as politically split as the rest of the country.  Plenty of conservative republican doctors.  Why can't they see this power grab?

2- The Flu.  Somehow the fact that flu is way down is being used as part of the narrative.  I am completely missing this.  Obviously with masks and precautions flu is down.  But, somehow, this is being used as proof of something, and I don't get it.

Serious questions.  I won't debate anybody here. I really want to understand how these two things fir in.

Into: What is your definition of an anti vaxxer?

1.As for the doctors my concern for them is there may be those that identify a situation where vaccination may not be entirely warranted (low risk previously infected) but have a business to run and protect.  It's safer to recommend everyone take it. They won't be liable for adverse reactions but may be if they didn't recommend it to someone that gets sick later. 

2. I can see a related argument regarding deaths and vaccination, but not the connection between fewer flu cases as an argument against vaciaron

BostonFNP, APRN

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine. Has 10 years experience.

2 hours ago, hherrn said:

Interesting- actually believe that doc are in on the scam.

I still haven't gotten a check yet...

toomuchbaloney

Has 43 years experience.

12 hours ago, jive turkey said:

As for the doctors my concern for them is there may be those that identify a situation where vaccination may not be entirely warranted (low risk previously infected) but have a business to run and protect.  It's safer to recommend everyone take it. They won't be liable for adverse reactions but may be if they didn't recommend it to someone that gets sick later. 

Does this mean that you now understand and agree that vaccination following infection is safe and benefits the larger community and that having previous infection is not a "valid reason" to remain unvaccinated?

BostonFNP, APRN

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine. Has 10 years experience.

12 hours ago, jive turkey said:

As for the doctors my concern for them is there may be those that identify a situation where vaccination may not be entirely warranted (low risk previously infected) but have a business to run and protect.  It's safer to recommend everyone take it. They won't be liable for adverse reactions but may be if they didn't recommend it to someone that gets sick later. 

A few things to clarify from the PCP practice perspective:

1. I am in no way incentivized to recommend the vaccines to anyone let alone everyone. Practices are not administering covid vaccines so there is no financial incentive. Covid vaccination rate is not a quality measure so there is no compliance/performance incentive. 

2. Vaccination is most often considered standard of care so it is difficult to sue a provider over recommending/administering a vaccine; this is different with covid because two of the three vaccines in this country are still under EUA, however, legally it would be difficult to argue that a "typical provider" would have not recommended vaccination without direct medical contraindication. I think providers would be legally protected against legal action for recommending vaccination. There is almost no legal jeopardy in not recommending vaccination; I am not aware of any major cases where providers were sued because they failed to recommend vaccination (the only cases I am aware of here is with parental refusal). Typically the legal jeopardy comes from recommending vaccination not the other way around. 

 

Mywords1

Specializes in nursing ethics.

My friend with a Ph.D. from an elite university believes this baloney. Also thinks that climate change is a hoax and weather experts and scientists are conning everyone. But he is anti science to start with. Another issue is that the probability of a younger healthy person in a decent region getting and dying from covid has been very low and they know it. This skepticism began in early 2020. A Fox newscaster said that the Democrats were behind it. She was fired.

 Still, the first time I know of when people reject an essential vaccine for irrelevant political reasons.