I am trying to feel out if anyone else has declined the Covid vaccine and feeling backlash or tension with other co-workers? I have never heard so much discussion regarding nurse receiving or declining a vaccine in the 12 years I've been a nurse. Not sure why it should even matter but, I am getting a lot of pressure about it. I do not see why I am "crazy " if I made the decision against receiving the vaccine. I also do not understand co-workers pushing the vaccine on me and others, or insisting we are out of our minds. This is coming from management level as well as staff nurses. I am just appalled at the treatment and many of us who have declined the vaccine have kept to ourselves. For me, personally, I made the choice not to get it and I was done at that. It's been a month into our hospital vaccines and people will not just shut up about it.
If data comes out that shows the vaccine prevents transmission and infection, I will get the vaccine.
there is nothing wrong with waiting until more information is available.
You've said this multiple times in this thread. I've provided a study from Israel, twice, that does support the prevailing wisdom that vaccines both protect the subject and retard transmission. You never respond to my posts.
You've said this multiple times in this thread. I've provided a study from Israel, twice, that does support the prevailing wisdom that vaccines both protect the subject and retard transmission. You never respond to my posts.
I feel lonely.
I read it. The line just prior to the one you quoted stated that he vaccine reduced viral load by 1.2x to 20.2x, or whatever the exact number is. That seems like a wide range to make the assumption.
I'm curious now, why would you only be interested in the vaccine if it completely prevents infection and transmission? Why don't you think it's worthwhile to get a vaccine if it 'only' prevents symptoms, either entirely or of severe disease?
I guess I'm coming at this from the perspective of a COVID nurse who has seen younger people (20s-40s) hospitalized. Some of them did not have any preconditions that would make them high risk for severe disease, but there they were, needing ever-increasing amounts of supplemental O2 anyway. Every time I get a patient like that, I think how seemingly random it is and how that could be me. Speaking for myself, the prospect of a day or two of flu-like symptoms from a vaccine seems like a small price to pay for protection from symptomatic COVID.
I guess I just don't understand the mindset of a 100% guarantee or nothing. Modern medicine is amazing, but nothing is 100%. Most of what we do is just about trying to tip the odds in our favor, and even an imperfect vaccine does that.
Because I’m not interested in adding another yearly vaccine in addition to the flu vaccine. It is not know whether or not the two dose shot provides long term immunity. Which means there will likely be more boosters if it doesn’t.
And I, personally, would rather take the risk of getting covid, with the fatality rate as low as it is, than intentionally getting the vaccine and feeling like crap for days.
I did not get and I'm not planning to get the vaccine. That being said I have not shared this info with my most of my coworkers. Not a lot of people ask but when they do I simply say - I havent gotten it yet. My relatives have gotten the shots and asked for my reason and I tell them I'm just not getting it. Fyi I did get covid a few months ago. I'm thankful to God that I got better. No one should be pushed or feel pressured to take the vaccine. It's should be a personal choice.
And I, personally, would rather take the risk of getting covid, with the fatality rate as low as it is, than intentionally getting the vaccine and feeling like crap for days.
I had a mild case, but felt like crap-exhausted and SOB-since covid, before vax. I felt horrible the day after vax for 12 hours-ish.
My hubby got covid and was in horrific shape. Still exhausted, no SOB. He's not anywhere near the realm of getting vax due to age. He told me he's not sure that he wants it. I told him that he's an adult, and I'm not his mother. His choice. Am I going to treat him like a pariah? Not on your life.
I understand that people want to wait, and because of supply and demand, their dose will go to someone who does want it.
My issue is people who have at least some science background state they base their decisions on inaccurate information. I strive not to mock or disparage, but I will call out false statements, just as "no one has any idea how the vaccines work."
I agree with the above. In fact I think it is how a lot of people feel--that they/we can sort of understand (or at least not be completely inflamed by) some of the vaccine hesitation in this particular circumstance, but would still want to call out, correct or question specific statements. I get that. It's the way that this is sometimes done that I disagree with. I certainly understand a feeling of bewilderment at some of the statements out there--but bewilderment is one thing and out of control emotions to the point of deciding that mockery and derision are the best tools is another thing.
From a variety of life experiences I would say that the most effective rebuttals are probably those kept simple and neutral. Everything else is just fighting, which is a very easy situation in which to lose one's cool and thus one's foothold.
What would happen if, say, a poster (or someone in a RL discussion) said, "here's this link showing that people are dying from the covid vaccine." You go look at the link and that's not at all what it says, so you reply back simply, "Your link doesn't say that. It says that X and Y things happened and no clear connection can be drawn between the two." Imagine if there were 5 or 10 more people who, instead of saying, "Can you read?" "Are you stupid?" "Are you really a nurse??" simply said, "The article you linked doesn't say that." Period.
I don't know; I personally think that would be powerful. I mean, the person's assertion would be pretty much cooked at that point, wouldn't it?
What would onlookers say about one approach versus the other? What if some of the onlookers had been told similar false information, that people are dying from the covid vaccine? And so they hear a rebuttal which is either "I haven't found any evidence suggesting that" vs. "you're stupid." Where do each of those paths take things on a larger scale?
I'm guilty of it, too (sometimes just feeling it and unfortunately sometimes saying it) but it seems especially important not to go that direction if we're claiming that the stakes are so high.
2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:
Discussing and criticizing poorly evidenced anxieties and rationale for avoiding vaccination during a pandemic is not equivalent to bullying. If the discussion is distressing don't bring your thoughts about not vaccinating to a discussion thread.
There is a difference between criticizing or mocking a person and/or their mental health, and critiquing their arguments. This thread is expressly about how people should be treated if they have not received the covid-19 vaccine. If anyone would like to argue that they should be treated as per the behavior described in the OP, we could discuss that.???
Specializes in Psychiatry, Community, Nurse Manager, hospice.
2 hours ago, Hoosier_RN said:
Which poster? The one that UD16 responded to, or UD16?
The comment from the poster UD16 responded to was not proactive in any way. It is also dangerous for people to act like this and think it's OK. FBT, you're 100%, bullying, regardless of idea is unacceptable
The one that UD16 responded to. That poster states that s/he bullies on purpose because s/he works in psych and it is necessary! That's terrible and part of the problem not the solution.
The line just prior to the one you quoted stated that he vaccine reduced viral load by 1.2x to 20.2x, or whatever the exact number is. That seems like a wide range to make the assumption.
We’re you an SS member in a previous lifetime? Holy cow, I hope you never hold a position of power.
This is how I see Covid's impact.
Myself and my family members with a few people are trapped on the 20th floor in a room with an elevator with a single window and ONE of us has EBOLA! The person with Ebola is the only person with the pass code for the elevator but won't use it because they have acrophobia.
Initially I will try for a short period of time to use persuasive educational methods to try to get this person to use the elevator. If that person is non compliant and can't see how they are endangering all of us, civility expires! They are going out of the window!
I was a bouncer for a brief period of time and I have seen first hand what happens to the innocent when you respect the dangerous individual's rights regardless of the many who simply wanted to have a night out, instead of ending up in the ER! Like my buddy who decided to talk to someone and was slashed across his face instead of kicking him out of the club! I immediately learned that this wasn't the weekend job for me!
I don't have sympathy or empathy for ignorant people, unless they had no choice in being that way! I have seen too many times when wives and children were physically hurt because of respecting the rights of an obviously dangerous individual who apparently didn't know any better!
There are numerous instances in society that when people present a danger to others, they are not educated but simply removed to a jail cell. A vaccine is just like a seat belt. It's just another way of protecting yourself from harm. It simply trains your immune system to recognize an enemy, sort of like all the education we acquire to recognize the S&S of the illnesses we encounter and the knowledge of how to deal with them.
I'm actually really disappointed that this poster works in psych. Psych patients are so often traumatized by bully Healthcare workers, and then people like me have to work really hard to regain their trust. Oftentimes its impossible.
Very sad ?
We should never bully anyone.
And that's the problem in a nutshell!
This inability of people to not see the trees because of the forest!
What happens when someone is hallucinating and attacking other patients? Do we restrain them, seclude them, medicate them? Is that against their will? Does that constitute bullying?
What happens when you work adolescent units and the mother's boyfriend who was abusing the thirteen year old girl wants to visit? Are our measures, bullying? It's always about the individual's rights and civil liberties but never about the collective rights, until it affects you personally!
Maybe the next time a patient punches or kicks someone and is becoming increasingly violent, you don't call a code, but try going right up to them and talking rationally and explaining why their behaviors are not conducive.
Curious1997, like the rest of us, you are entitled to your opinion. Thankfully the U.S. Surgeon General is on public record stating NONE of these vaccines should be mandated by anyone. According to Forbes Magazine, PennLive, and various news sources approximately 60% or more of healthcare workers including doctors and nurses are REFUSING the vaccine to the point where if any one of you tries to force the issue, we will take legal action and not work while getting paid (at least in the U.S. where there are laws providing such protection during legal action -- and even if we could not work, would still not be forced).
If you think there's a healthcare worker shortage now especially in nursing homes (the one home I worked in prior to going back to hospice would often have one CNA on nights for 150 people, and in the evening one CNA for 50, and I still remember being the house supervisor for 151 patients while being on three separate medication carts caring for 40 COVID-19 positive patients for my shift), force the issue on vaccines that were rushed to market (an extremely recent Medscape article actually states they were rushed to market) and for those of us who know safe vaccines were tested over decades on one million or more people will not be lab rats.
There's such a thing as bodily autonomy, and as some who have taken care of a reasonable number of COVID-19 positive patients without ever getting COVID-19 to know there are ways to avoid getting COVID-19 without experimental medications that were not properly tested to know the long-term impacts. So I stand with doctors I know who are refusing these vaccines as well as other nurses!
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
2 hours ago, Tozz said:
Agreed. We've done it with other diseases. Why not with one that, aside from the human misery, will probably plunge us into a major economic crisis within the next year. .
Major Economic crises within the next year? What about right now? Annecdotally I have friends and family members who have lost everything they have, haven't worked in close to a year, are having to sell off assets just to survive right now.
I do not believe that anyone should be bullied into any type of compliance but I do believe all of us have a responsibility to do what we can to alleviate the shear human misery this virus has brought on the world.
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Tozz
86 Posts
You've said this multiple times in this thread. I've provided a study from Israel, twice, that does support the prevailing wisdom that vaccines both protect the subject and retard transmission. You never respond to my posts.
I feel lonely.