I am trying to feel out if anyone else has declined the Covid vaccine and feeling backlash or tension with other co-workers? I have never heard so much discussion regarding nurse receiving or declining a vaccine in the 12 years I've been a nurse. Not sure why it should even matter but, I am getting a lot of pressure about it. I do not see why I am "crazy " if I made the decision against receiving the vaccine. I also do not understand co-workers pushing the vaccine on me and others, or insisting we are out of our minds. This is coming from management level as well as staff nurses. I am just appalled at the treatment and many of us who have declined the vaccine have kept to ourselves. For me, personally, I made the choice not to get it and I was done at that. It's been a month into our hospital vaccines and people will not just shut up about it.
This inability of people to not see the trees because of the forest!
What happens when someone is hallucinating and attacking other patients? Do we restrain them, seclude them, medicate them? Is that against their will? Does that constitute bullying?
What happens when you work adolescent units and the mother's boyfriend who was abusing the thirteen year old girl wants to visit? Are our measures, bullying? It's always about the individual's rights and civil liberties but never about the collective rights, until it affects you personally!
Maybe the next time a patient punches or kicks someone and is becoming increasingly violent, you don't call a code, but try going right up to them and talking rationally and explaining why their behaviors are not conducive.
You are talking about policies and procedures in a psych medical setting vs the bullying a free thinking adult. Again, bullying is wrong on so many levels, I don't really care how you try to justify it. You can't.
Others have pointed out that the CDC is in agreement with not forcing vaccines. I have started my series, but will not belittle anyone else for whatever choice they make.
I agree with the above. In fact I think it is how a lot of people feel--that they/we can sort of understand (or at least not be completely inflamed by) some of the vaccine hesitation in this particular circumstance, but would still want to call out, correct or question specific statements. I get that. It's the way that this is sometimes done that I disagree with. I certainly understand a feeling of bewilderment at some of the statements out there--but bewilderment is one thing and out of control emotions to the point of deciding that mockery and derision are the best tools is another thing.
From a variety of life experiences I would say that the most effective rebuttals are probably those kept simple and neutral. Everything else is just fighting, which is a very easy situation in which to lose one's cool and thus one's foothold.
What would happen if, say, a poster (or someone in a RL discussion) said, "here's this link showing that people are dying from the covid vaccine." You go look at the link and that's not at all what it says, so you reply back simply, "Your link doesn't say that. It says that X and Y things happened and no clear connection can be drawn between the two." Imagine if there were 5 or 10 more people who, instead of saying, "Can you read?" "Are you stupid?" "Are you really a nurse??" simply said, "The article you linked doesn't say that." Period.
I don't know; I personally think that would be powerful. I mean, the person's assertion would be pretty much cooked at that point, wouldn't it?
What would onlookers say about one approach versus the other? What if some of the onlookers had been told similar false information, that people are dying from the covid vaccine? And so they hear a rebuttal which is either "I haven't found any evidence suggesting that" vs. "you're stupid." Where do each of those paths take things on a larger scale?
I'm guilty of it, too (sometimes just feeling it and unfortunately sometimes saying it) but it seems especially important not to go that direction if we're claiming that the stakes are so high.
There is a difference between criticizing or mocking a person and/or their mental health, and critiquing their arguments. This thread is expressly about how people should be treated if they have not received the covid-19 vaccine. If anyone would like to argue that they should be treated as per the behavior described in the OP, we could discuss that.???
How we feel about receiving feedback and information is purely personal!
If I am engaging in destructive behaviors, I would like to immediately be restrained verbally or physically to prevent harm to myself or others! But that's just me.
I can deal with the psychological fallout later, which as long as someone was acting in good faith for my well being and I understand that logically it was the best course of action, I would thank that person and be grateful.
I am responsible for my feelings and no one is likely to influence it because through education and experience, I have trained myself to rationally and objectively evaluate input. I will not give someone else the power to control how I feel!
If someone feels bullied because of what they have read and been told, then I suggest they explore why they feel that way and why are they unable to simply intake the relevant information pertaining to their erudition and discard the other? Apparently the problem might lie with how those individuals react in allowing their emotions to rule them?
This isn't a virus that responds to social etiquette like hurt feelings. It should be mandatory to take the vaccine for the protection of all of us.
6 hours ago, Curious1997 said:
[...]
In every community there are rules to ensure peace and safety of that community. If you endanger the community, you are penalized. You made the choice to live there! If you are unable to follow the rules, move out!
[...]
"Move out" seems somewhat vague. As you have previously stated you believe the vaccine should be mandatory, what do you think we should do with those that opt not to do so?
You are talking about policies and procedures in a psych medical setting vs the bullying a free thinking adult. Agsin, bullying is wrong on so many levels, I don't really care how you try to justify it. You can't.
Others have pointed out that the CDC is in agreement with not forcing vaccines. I have started my series, but will not belittle anyone else for whatever choice they make.
Substitute bullying for not seeing the trees because of the forest!
If you are unable to understand that, then I wish you the best.
The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few!
Substitute bullying for not seeing the trees because of the forest!
If you are unable to understand that, then I wish you the best.
The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few!
I understand fine. Apparently you don't understand free will, nor the fact that the vaccine isn't mandatory. So while you are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to tell others what they have to do regarding the vaccine.
We are lucky to live in a country that allows freedom of choice
"Move out" seems somewhat vague. As you have previously stated you believe the vaccine should be mandatory, what do you think we should do with those that opt not to do so?
Exactly. We don't oppress those that are antivaxxers now. We just acknowledge their difference of opinion.
1st you negate the incredible resiliance of the human spirit by saying that a man who becomes a single father will neglect his children and become a abusive or neglectful addict/Alcoholic.
Then this statement
" I have seen too many times when wives and children were physically hurt because of respecting the rights of an obviously dangerous individual who apparently didn't know any better!"
And finally
"What happens when you work adolescent units and the mother's boyfriend who was abusing the thirteen year old girl wants to visit? Are our measures, bullying?"
I sense a theme:
We are nurses. Not judges, juries and executioners.
And I have seen just enough cases of children and adolescents who were coached in making false accusations as well as outright lying to ruin someone's life.
I have been a psych nurse with the adolescent population for close to 20 years and am highly concerned that you believe bullying is a tactic to achieve any kind of lasting change. This is a dangerous abuse of your duties as a nurse. In all of these situations it is the nurses job to care for the patient, reserve judgement as we must always consider a person innocent until proven guilty and where warranted report concern to those agencies that can start criminal investigation and enact no visitation orders.
A nurse must to a certian degree and especially in psych maintain a level of objectivity in their practice.
It's not a crime to be mentally ill and treatment cannot be forced unless there is clear and present risk of danger to self and others. Before we gained this insight we subjected whole groups of people to life in institutions, forced sterilization and lobotomies,
I for one would not want to go back to those times.
I understand fine. Apparently you don't understand free will, nor the fact that the vaccine isn't mandatory. So while you are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to tell others what they have to do regarding the vaccine.
We are lucky to live in a country that allows freedom of choice
Good luck with that if you think you have free will?
In the America I live in, we have rules. We also have persuasive logical arguments influencing how we behave and think.
I choose to subscribe to more intelligent, educated people telling me how to think and behave like my parents and Kant and Descartes etc. I don't possess the depth of thought or breadth of experience to have free will. So I am happy that you are so capable.
This inability of people to not see the trees because of the forest!
What happens when someone is hallucinating and attacking other patients? Do we restrain them, seclude them, medicate them? Is that against their will? Does that constitute bullying?
What happens when you work adolescent units and the mother's boyfriend who was abusing the thirteen year old girl wants to visit? Are our measures, bullying? It's always about the individual's rights and civil liberties but never about the collective rights, until it affects you personally!
Maybe the next time a patient punches or kicks someone and is becoming increasingly violent, you don't call a code, but try going right up to them and talking rationally and explaining why their behaviors are not conducive.
The scenarios you describe here aren’t what I’d call bullying. Self-defense isn’t bullying. To me it would only become bullying or abuse of power if you could control a threatening/violent situation without using force but choose to use force just becauseyouknowyou’reinapositiontogetawaywithit.
English isn’t my native language but I understand bullying to be abuse or mistreatment of someone vulnerable by someone stronger or in a position of power? And that’s never acceptable in my book.
58 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:
This is how I see Covid's impact.
Myself and my family members with a few people are trapped on the 20th floor in a room with an elevator with a single window and ONE of us has EBOLA! The person with Ebola is the only person with the pass code for the elevator but won't use it because they have acrophobia.
Initially I will try for a short period of time to use persuasive educational methods to try to get this person to use the elevator. If that person is non compliant and can't see how they are endangering all of us, civility expires! They are going out of the window!
This is a rather dramatic example ? Wouldn’t it be better to ask the sick person for the elevator pass code so the rest of you can leave the room? Apart from the fact that throwing people out of 20th floor windows is slightly illegal, launching a 150-200 lbs human missile and splashing infectious bodily fluids all over the unfortunate pedestrians on the sidewalk below seems a bit uncharitable...
1st you negate the incredible resiliance of the human spirit by saying that a man who becomes a single father will neglect his children and become a abusive or neglectful addict/Alcoholic.
Then this statement
" I have seen too many times when wives and children were physically hurt because of respecting the rights of an obviously dangerous individual who apparently didn't know any better!"
And finally
"What happens when you work adolescent units and the mother's boyfriend who was abusing the thirteen year old girl wants to visit? Are our measures, bullying?"
I sense a theme:
We are nurses. Not judges, juries and executioners.
And I have seen just enough cases of children and adolescents who were coached in making false accusations as well as outright lying to ruin someone's life.
I have been a psych nurse with the adolescent population for close to 20 years and am highly concerned that you believe bullying is a tactic to achieve any kind of lasting change. This is a dangerous abuse of your duties as a nurse. In all of these situations it is the nurses job to care for the patient, reserve judgement as we must always consider a person innocent until proven guilty and where warranted report concern to those agencies that can start criminal investigation and enact no visitation orders.
A nurse must to a certian degree and especially in psych maintain a level of objectivity in their practice.
It's not a crime to be mentally ill and treatment cannot be forced unless there is clear and present risk of danger to self and others. Before we gained this insight we subjected whole groups of people to life in institutions, forced sterilization and lobotomies,
I for one would not want to go back to those times.
Hppy
I suspect that you will never see the trees for the forest.
I'm very much appreciative of your attempts to educate me. Maybe one day I will be capable of understanding.
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
20 minutes ago, chare said:
"Move out" seems somewhat vague. As you have previously stated you believe the vaccine should be mandatory, what do you think we should do with those that opt not to do so?
I hear there's this island in the South Pacific where they used to keep lepers!
The scenarios you describe here aren’t what I’d call bullying. Self-defense isn’t bullying. To me it would only become bullying or abuse of power if you could control a threatening/violent situation without using force but choose to use force just because you know you’re in a position to get away with it.
English isn’t my native language but I understand bullying to be abuse or mistreatment of someone vulnerable by someone stronger or in a position of power? And that’s never acceptable in my book.
This is a rather dramatic example ? Wouldn’t it be better to ask the sick person for the elevator pass code so the rest of you can leave the room? Apart from the fact that throwing people out of 20th floor windows is slightly illegal, launching a 150-200 lbs human missile and splashing infectious bodily fluids all over the unfortunate pedestrians on the sidewalk below seems a bit uncharitable...
Point taken. Hopefully someone else in the room would have thought of your response. My reaction to self preservation is dramatic as was the scenario conjured. However I am trying to convey a picture. The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few.
Hoosier_RN, MSN
3,968 Posts
You are talking about policies and procedures in a psych medical setting vs the bullying a free thinking adult. Again, bullying is wrong on so many levels, I don't really care how you try to justify it. You can't.
Others have pointed out that the CDC is in agreement with not forcing vaccines. I have started my series, but will not belittle anyone else for whatever choice they make.