Question ladies...

[zacofalltrades]

So, this might seem unusual to some, but I only pose the question because my wife brought it up. She is in an ECG course and the male instructor requires each one of the female students to take off their tops to their bras and have other students take 12-leads on them. He also requires the male students in the class (2 of them) to remove their shirts completely. Now there doesn't seem to be much regard for the respect of others who may not want to participate but my wife left early one night because she didn't want to be the one on the table in front of everybody; she's not the only woman in the class bothered by this either.

I'm a nurse myself and have been doing these kinds of courses and trainings for more than ten years and that seems unheard of and a little creepy to me. I want to call and talk to the director at the school and ask if this is accepted practice but is that going too far..?

Any input or anyone's opinion would be gratefully appreciated.

[coffeetalker]

I do not think that this should be an acceptable practice-------does the school not have a simulation lab? I would call the director- because it is more than a little creepy.

[Boomer MS, RN]

Listen to your gut. This is inappropriate. Yes, call the person in charge of this course.

[SmilingBluEyes]

HIGHLY inappropriate. Report it.

[KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN]

Unless students were informed beforehand and had an option not to participate, it is not appropriate.

Teaching correct 12 lead placement on a living human is definitely more effective than on standard piece of plastic, but the whole thing still doesn't smell right. The agency which administers the course needs to be informed.

[llg, PhD, RN]

Strongly agree ... not necessary ... inappropriate ... creepy.

[OyWithThePoodles, RN]

When I was in LPN school we did EKG's on each other. BUT, we were a class of all females, kept our shirts on, and had the option to opt out.

This seems inappropriate.

[crazin01]

yeah, definitely report this instructor. What about a mannequin, as previously suggested in a sim lab? I've also heard of shadowing an EKG tech for a few hours/half a day or something. Most real patients don't mind; it has to be done anyways & they have the option to choose. I never learned lead placement in nursing school, but rather on the floor on a cardiac unit with the telemetry course on real patients.

I hope your wife & other students are willing to talk to director/supervisor of this instructor. Please let us know what happens. :-)

and kudos to your wife for removing herself without causing drama.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

In nursing school, we were required to do EKGs on each other. We knew ahead of time and were expected to wear sports bras. We also weren't in front of the entire class but being signed off in curtained cubicles- we had a fake ward set up at the school. Females partnered with females and the 3 males worked as a group.

[zacofalltrades]

Thanks for the input everybody; I'll post an update after I contact the administrator today.

[cayenne06, MSN, CNM]

That sort of thing is ONLY acceptable in a truly voluntary situation, and where there is no other reasonable option to learn the skill. Often in a classroom setting there is an unspoken pressure to agree, and that is not okay. And really. . . it sounds creepy. there's no reason to make a woman sit in front of a class in just her bra (or to make a man sit topless!), in order to learn where to place leads. I mean really. A tank top would suffice; you can place leads on top of the fabric without sacrificing the learning experience. A hospital gown at least!

But honestly... some skills are best learned on a real person, but placing leads can be learned easily on a mannequin and then perfected in clinical.

This is coming from someone who happily let her midwifery classmates do their first pelvic exam on me. I am not shy. But this sounds unnecessary and weird.

[Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN]

Agreed. If it's so important to have a real person, they should take volunteers only or get a paid medical model.