So, this might seem unusual to some, but I only pose the question because my wife brought it up. She is in an ECG course and the male instructor requires each one of the female students to take off their tops to their bras and have other students take 12-leads on them. He also requires the male students in the class (2 of them) to remove their shirts completely. Now there doesn't seem to be much regard for the respect of others who may not want to participate but my wife left early one night because she didn't want to be the one on the table in front of everybody; she's not the only woman in the class bothered by this either.
I'm a nurse myself and have been doing these kinds of courses and trainings for more than ten years and that seems unheard of and a little creepy to me. I want to call and talk to the director at the school and ask if this is accepted practice but is that going too far..?
Any input or anyone's opinion would be gratefully appreciated.
I'm the odd man out here; to be good at anything you need to practice on the real thing. If you aren't comfortable in your own body than perhaps its not your thing. Also, the variety of bodies does give you the advantage to get the real teaching (fat vs skinny etc...).
People are leaving class early d/t being uncomfortable. They aren't learning if they aren't there. I never signed anything stating that I had to take my clothes off to be in nursing school. There was one procedure where we had to wear tank tops--but anyone who was uncomfortable even with that was allowed to keep their shirts on. You just can't go around commanding people to take their clothes off!
I'm the odd man out here; to be good at anything you need to practice on the real thing. If you aren't comfortable in your own body than perhaps its not your thing. Also, the variety of bodies does give you the advantage to get the real teaching (fat vs skinny etc...).
I can't disagree with you for the fact of working with others bodies is a benefit, but it would be more appropriate to contract with a hospital and send each student to the ER for an evening where they would have the opportunity to perform many ECGs on a myriad of patients with actual pathology.
But your next comment is simply a fallacy. A woman being comfortable half-nude in the presence of a strange man has absolutely no bearing on whether or not performing the skill of an ECG (or any skill for that matter) is her thing or not.
I'm the odd man out here; to be good at anything you need to practice on the real thing. If you aren't comfortable in your own body than perhaps its not your thing. Also, the variety of bodies does give you the advantage to get the real teaching (fat vs skinny etc...).
I am very comfortable in my own skin and have no qualms about nudity (mine or others).
I still don't want to be coerced into undressing in front of a room full of people. I will get naked on my own terms, thanks.
And we are talking ECG leads here. Come on. Cachectic or morbidly obese, the landmarks are comparable. A cooperative and alert patient, who is not slick with sweat, covered with a thick pelt of body hair, and being frantically worked on by half the ED staff while you try to cut off their clothes and place leads, is not going to teach you anything you couldn't learn on a mannequin.
Ok, so here's an update. Hang in there, cause I'm in the mood to rant
I appreciate everyone's feedback; it's good to hear other's perspectives and I value the different points of view. Everyone likes to address things differently in their lives and a big part of that stems from our culture and background.
I had been really bothered with how uncomfortable my wife was, particularly when it got to the point that she walked out of class early one night after being persuaded to take off her shirt. We talked about it more earlier today and she has had anxiety about going to class tonight because of this instructor. It sounds worse than she initially eluded to and the other ladies in the class were as uncomfortable and creeped out she. My wife was thankful and proud that I stood up for her and the other ladies in the class and she felt relieved in attending tonight since she knows that the issue has been addressed formally. It may be the protective side of me, but I don't think that anyone should be put in that position to where the quality of their evaluation relies on them exposing themselves when there are better alternatives (like spending a night in the ED performing the skill on real patients). I might understand if the issue of taking off your top to your bra was voluntary, but this is being required at each class meeting, and not in small groups either, but in front of a class and is a bit of a conflict of interest.
I've got a background in military, EMS, critical care nursing, and education and am a proponent of very realistic training; I'm also a proponent of respect for the rights of others and am a bit of a feminist; I have known a number of female scientists who have been taken advantage of in the education system throughout their careers by men who are in a position of power, who use that power for an ulterior motive. I refuse to ever stand by and allow someone to do something like that if I have the opportunity to be an agent of change.
My wife sounded excited to give me an update when the class is through this evening; so, if it's anything good. I'll post another update. In the meantime, thanks for your feedback and support.
You did this without her blessing?! I'd be PIZZED to high heaven!
We had talked about it prior and there was no real fear in informing her, I was having fun with that last remark. She was very pleased that I am supportive of her and had her back.
Final update: The instructor was nearly 30 minutes late to class (presumably being talked to) and the class went along without any problems and nobody was singled out; the instructor was professional and didn't let on that there had been a complaint. They are changing the manner in which the practical work will be done and it saved my wife from having to bare her bosom in a manner which she felt terribly uncomfortable. Wifey was super happy and thankful and some the gals in the course commented relief about the outcome.
Purple_roses
1,763 Posts
People are leaving class early d/t being uncomfortable. They aren't learning if they aren't there. I never signed anything stating that I had to take my clothes off to be in nursing school. There was one procedure where we had to wear tank tops--but anyone who was uncomfortable even with that was allowed to keep their shirts on. You just can't go around commanding people to take their clothes off!