Fed-up: Admin will not even meet with me so I can withdrawal. A warning to others.

[reluctantrn]

Hey everyone,

I recently posted about an issue I am having and the great people here at AN helped me come to a decision. I am getting the heck out of nursing school. Sorry I ever invested a minute in this abusive profession. Do a search for 'Nurses, Abuse" on any search engine, here on AN, or in your school's peer reviewed library. It is utterly insane how many results there are. Patients abusing nurses, nurses abusing other nurses, managers abusing nurses, professors abusing nursing students, clinical instructors abusing students...Why did I refuse to see the writing on the wall? I guess because I though I could just find the right job and avoid it. Nope.

Anyway, I wanted to vent and to share what has happened to me so that others are empowered through all the knowledge they can gain, if they choose to research before deciding to enter nursing school.

Just how abusive is it? Here is a story. You can look at my last post to garner details about the abuse that lead me to the decision to leave the program...but here is what has happened to me since I decided to leave and TRIED to do so...

Normal process for any grievance is to contact the program director. Not an option in may case because she has lied, refuses to let me bring someone with me as a witness during meetings, refuses to speak with me via email, and previous verbal communication has come back to bite me on the buttocks. At this point, she is unwilling to allow me ANY kind of witness--be it a human or a cyber witness. And, I am so traumatized that I don't feel I can meet with her at all, in any capacity at this point.

So, I contact the Associate Dean (next in line and normal stepping stone if you cannot goto the director). I explain that I have tried to speak with the director and she will not do so in any way that I (and the schools handbook outlines as acceptable) feel comfortable with.

She denies me. Says I must meet with the director first..after I just explained that I tried to do so via email or with someone else to witness meeting.

So, I contact the Dean. Same thing.

So, I contact the Dean of Academic Affairs of the School of Nursing. She won't even return my email. Small department, statement already made to indicate that they have spoken about the matter.

All I want is to get the heck OUT. It is my first semester. My financial aid is at stake. My future is at stake. I just want to discuss the issues that have led me to this decision and find out my options as to how to best withdrawal without ramifications to my academic future (in another field).

They are so abusive that they will not even let me leave. Talk about slavery. My only saving grace is that I know people outside the nursing department and although I would rather avoid it, I can pull that weight if I have to. Most students don't have this option, so what do they do?

What will you do if it happens to you?

If you are considering attending nursing school, I highly suggest that you speak with recent prior students to discuss the REAL situation, not just GPA entry requirements or HESI exams. But the real meat of the program. If I had done so, I would have attended somewhere else and most likely, would have become a FNP. Can't say that I am going to be disappointed though. I have resigned to the fact that they are doing me a favor by reminding me about the abuse aspect of this career in my first semester rather than after years of time invested and at my first job.

Make wise choices.

This is a vent and information sharing post. I am not looking for feedback because any constructive feedback as to what I can do would require me revealing too much about the internal structure of my program and may ID me.

Once things blow over, I'll reveal more, but for now I can't.

But seriously, here I am having to study my butt off for a class that I hope to be able to withdrawal from, incase I can't. I can't even garner a meeting with someone so that I can have an exit interview, unless I expose myself to abuse by the director. This is ridiculous.

To all the kind instructors out there, who want students to succeed and who value top students, bless you.

To the abusive ones, to quote Bob Dylan, "You ain't worth the blood/That runs in your veins".

Hope this helps someone out there somewhere to make an informed choice as to if you really want to attend nursing school. I'm not saying you shouldn't, just sharing my journey so you know it could happen to you.

You can be, and many students ARE, abused in nursing school.

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

The associate dean, and the dean have refused to meet with me until I first meet with the director. The director has refused speak with me via email and has refused to allow me to being anyone with me for an in-person meeting. I do not (for a plethora of reason's) trust meeting with the director without any kind of record. I have explained this (as well as my valid reasons, she has lied about several important things--the biggest being what program I am in) to the asst. dean/dean and they still refuse to meet with me unless I meet, alone, in-person, with the director first.

In addition to the solutions others have presented to you: send a certified letter to the director. CC the registrar and the dean. State in the letter "As of XX/XX/XXXX I am withdrawing from the nursing program and XYZ school. For any future communications I can be reached at (123)-456-7890. Sincerely, (your name)." End of story.

Also, you can count me among the individuals who don't understand why you would need a witness for a meeting with the director (even if she does have some personality issues). Get something in writing? Absolutely (especially when it comes to raises, but that is a different issue). Witness for those talks? Umm, no.

[BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN]

Depends on the state. I live in a "one-party" state. I can record a conversation because I, one of the parties, is aware of it. Need to be careful if you're in a two party state though!

As previously discussed in this thread, in many if not most places, that's illegal.

OP you're just gonna have to suck it up and meet with the director.

[AnchoredRN]

Why do you need someone with you? If you want to withdraw and get away from the program, then why does it matter what she says or thinks of you? You'll never see her again!

Grow a pair, face the music, and go about your merry way!

[Julius Seizure]

My nursing school had some good professors, and some that were rather manipulative and controlling. Unfortunately, they were the ones with the most power there. At the beginning of the program, I was told that I should become an ICU nurse because I was smart and the best nurses were needed in ICU. Towards the end of my final semester, those very same professors (incl. the Dean of the nursing school) told me that I was probably not cut out to be a nurse at all, that I was a disgrace to the profession, etc etc. What had happened? I overslept my alarm one morning and missed an exam.

So what did I do? I sent an email asking for another chance to take the exam, and I met with that professor and the dean, and I let them say all the destructive things that they wanted to say about my potential as a nurse. Because you know what? Two months later I was gonna graduate and never have to see their faces again. And now I'm a successful nurse who is good at her job, loves her career as a traveling critical care nurse, and is a valued employee/coworker. And truthfully, sometimes I want to go back and tell them how wrong they were about me.

Nursing schools CAN be horrible sometimes. But unfortunately, they hold the power when you are attending their program. My (unsolicited) advice to you would be to do whatever you need to do to have a future that you want. If that means ignoring their nasty attitudes and graduating with a nursing degree - do it. Or maybe it means finding a new school, or even just changing majors and career plans. If you cant meet with the director alone, I understand. But if you can manage it, even if they are gonna try to tear you down....let them say whatever they are gonna say and know that it doesnt reflect on you. It reflects on them. YOU can be successful despite whatever they think or say. And get whatever is agreed upon in writing before leaving

I would also be just really clear about getting the heck out and moving on with no or little financial downfall for you. I would not really get into the abuse aspect of things, as it sounds like they are aware, but not responding to that. Once you are out and your financial aid is intact, THEN you can file a complaint, attorney generals office perhaps......but just do what you need to at present to insure your financial aid is intact, and that you will not be responsible for a loan that you did not use.

This is great advice. Now is not the time to tell the director or anybody else that you feel abused and wronged. They either will not care, or they will be put on the defensive and make your life harder. Get in, get out with what you need. This is not the hill that you want to die on. ​

I wish you luck, whatever you choose to do :)

[EmergencyRN22]

I'm glad I'm not the only one to recognize the OP as overly dramatic.

Fyi...here's the old thread with more info.

https://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/new-grad-student-981178.html

[laurellestars]

I totally understand, after a certain point students need permission from a director, counselor, etc. to withdraw.

You just have to see her in person and explain the situation, get a doctors or a therapists note that you need to withdraw if the class is very stressful.

I had to withdraw from nursing school for a while after my SBP went up by 30 for weeks and developed chronic insomnia from sleep deprivation from using public transportation excessively(did not have a car at the time). My health was terrible, and my doctor agreed I had to take time off or else.

Take a Xanax before facing the director if she scares you so much. Don't give up.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Take a Xanax before facing the director if she scares you so much. Don't give up.

Say what? Use a drug she doesn't have a script for/illegal drugs to calm her nerves before the meeting. Err, ok.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

reading comprehension, she is not going to pursue nursing at that level. , and the dean has lied about her before.

You are going to have to deal with difficult personalities everywhere. If you're not willing to meet with an administrator at your nursing SCHOOL without a "witness" (you know, in case she pulls out a gun and shoots you? I guess that must be what you're afraid of if you absolutely will not meet her on your own?), I'm sorry to say you won't make it in nursing. We deal with difficult coworkers, patients, patients family members, administrators, etc. If I ran to my boss and requested a formal meeting with a witness of my choosing every time someone hurt my feelings, I would be out of a job. Quickly. My nursing school was filled with difficult professors and administrators. But my desire to be a nurse far outweighed my desire to "stick it to the man" and whistle blow on every "unfair" practice they had in place. So buck up and withdraw. If that means meeting the dean or professor or whomever, ON YOUR OWN, just DO IT. I doubt very seriously she has shackles in her office ready to lock you in the closet for the rest of your life.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

i don't think most persons are understanding her desire for a witness. the dean has lied about her in the past, there is no way to know what the dean would fabricate about this meeting. and the person who suggested the cell phone connection, wasn't suggesting recording, but that the friend could act as that witness because she/he could her the conversation.

[Julius Seizure]

i don't think most persons are understanding her desire for a witness. the dean has lied about her in the past, there is no way to know what the dean would fabricate about this meeting. and the person who suggested the cell phone connection, wasn't suggesting recording, but that the friend could act as that witness because she/he could her the conversation.

I do feel that its nothing but a power move to refuse to let her have a witness. I can't think of any other reason. Unfortunately, that kind of attitude from a nursing program doesn't really surprise me. Its their game, and the students have to play it. Luckily, its not forever.

[Stalirris]

This same thing happened to my sister. I wonder if you're going to the same college? The PD and the Dean were best friends. The PD was the one of the main instructors, too. Lawsuits were filed for multiple years in a row against this school from students who would not allow themselves to be treated this way and withdrew. Huge sums of money were wasted by the students.

The PD was verbally abusive to the students in class to the point of screaming at students, like a maniac, in front of the whole class. Arbitrary grades were assigned to students projects based on whether the PD liked you or not. It was insane. It was beyond abuse. It was unprofessional. My sister could tell you more, but I was flabbergasted at her stories.

My sister, who worked CTICU for many, many years, would not put up with the insane treatment. She's no wilting flower and attempted to speak to the Dean and got no where, just like the OP. She was told she had to finish the semester and would not be able to withdrawal. They basically owned her. She had too many semesters to go and she was not willing to trust the PD and the Dean with her future. She wasted her time and money.

At the time, my sister was working in a Catholic run hospital and she had chosen this school based on the ties the college had with the hospital. One of the nuns in administration, at the hospital, was also on the Board of this college. Something to do with money. My sister, and a few other nurses at the hospital that were in the same program, met with this nun and explained what was happening. She was horrified. She ended up going to the Dean of the Nursing Program and the President of the College. She warned them that the continuation of these practices, especially in light of the lawsuits, would have severe repercussions to the future of the program as a whole.

My sister was able to withdrawal from the program and enter another, after intervention from the nun. Half of her class were able to leave as well. It was a poopstorm.

I don't believe those who say "suck it up" are giving the OP full credit for the hell she's going through. I don't believe she's being overly dramatic. This abusive behavior towards students, even graduate students, is happening all across the country. Wolford College of Nurse Anesthesia was one, as well as, West Virgina School of Anesthesia.

Good luck OP. This is your future and I agree you need to tread carefully.

[Red Kryptonite]

Ok I've been trying not to let the grammar Nazi out, but withdrawal is a noun. Withdraw is the verb. You withdraw from a program. You suffer withdrawal from a substance. Capiche?!