EMT-Practitioner

allnurses Guide · May 27, 2008

I still find it incredible that any EMT / paramedic would want to work in a hospital setting. The paramedics in the UK are pre-hospital experts and treated as such. They are paid on the same scale as nurses working within a hospital.

Do a google search of emergency care practitioners (EMP) in the UK or paramedic practitioners, we have some paramedics who are qualifiying at masters level. I did my first year MSc with one and he was amazing and went onto be a EMP working alongside the GP's in primary care

meandragonbrett · May 27, 2008

Seriously? I'll sign the petition....the one that is against this idea.

EricJRN, MSN, RN · May 27, 2008

Here are a few things to consider:

- In most areas, the only shortage is a shortage of working nurses. If even a small portion of the licensed but non-working nurses would return to the field, there would be little if any shortage to speak of. The most direct and effective way to address any nursing shortage would be through improvement in working conditions, such as more reasonable licensed nurse staffing ratios. I'm a happily employed nurse, but I'm one of an increasingly lucky, rare breed.

- One of the biggest problems in healthcare, particularly in nursing, is the fact that there are so many educational paths leading to patient care positions. The parade of personnel (RN's, LPN/LVN's, APN's, CNA's, respiratory therapists, social workers, attendings, residents, interns, to name only a few) in and out of a patient's room can be astounding. Just within RN education, I can think of five educational levels or paths. Honestly, if all of these programs haven't alleviated the staffing burdens, is it worth creating yet another position with another confusing string of initials?

- In creating any new educational program, availability of faculty has been a major obstacle. Nursing faculty members are underpaid in comparison to other nurses with similar experience. Creating these new programs would likely further dilute the pool of available faculty members.

RN1980 · May 27, 2008

if you want to work essentially as a nurse, with all nursing privaleges, then by all means goto nursing school and pass nclex...

GilaRRT · May 27, 2008

Uh, Basic EMT to a RN like provider in one semester? I fail to see how this is a solution for the primary care nursing shortage.

hypocaffeinemia, BSN, RN · May 27, 2008

Paramedics can already take a one year bridge to RN program. If programs require three semesters to bridge from Paramedic to RN, how do you think it's possible to bridge EMT-B to pseudoRN in one semester?

Edit to add:

Oh, and EMT-Basics can't do IVs, blood draws, EKGs, and foleys.

I am an EMT-I and the skills (and interpretation/assesssment of!) aren't taught in EMT-B courses nor are they within an EMT-B's scope of practice. Sure, do some learn on the job and perform them with an EMT-I or EMT-Paramedic supervising? All the time. That doesn't equate to formal competency, especially when all they are learning is skills.

Nursing is so much more than the skills-- you can teach monkeys to start an IV.

cowboyhat1 · May 27, 2008

I am with you! I was an EMT CC and now am an RN. THERE IS NO COMPARING the two!

racing-mom4, BSN, RN · May 27, 2008

I have worked with paramedics who have bridged and received their RN. They are wonderful RNs. Esp in an ER setting. Yet they did the nursing program---they got out of a few classes because they already had their paramedic lic ex: pharm/fundementals/chemistry.

But an EMT? Our EMTs dont even do acu checks..that is like saying a CNA after 1 semester should have their RN.

If an EMT wants to be an RN they have a few options, work way up to paramedic and then do a bridge program or just start nursing school now.

medicrnohio, RN · May 27, 2008

I am totally against this idea. If an EMT wants to be a nurse, they need to attend nursing school. The few classes you suggest does not make one a nurse.

KyPinkRN · May 27, 2008

Nursing is without a doubt one of the most important jobs a person can undertake. I have personally been blessed by many wonderful nurses. Unfortunately there is a problem....
As we all know, there is a major nursing shortage which is expected to get much worse over the next several years. I have come up with an idea that will help alleviate this problem, especially benefitting underserved areas, particularly in primary care. I would love to collect your support and send a petition to congress and various medical organizations - please "sign" via your positive reply to my post.
My idea is the creation of the EMT-Practitioner program. Many of you are already aware that many EMTs function as Techs at Emergency Departments around the country. EMTs are already allowed to do many "nursing functions" including but not limited to: wound care, EKGs, IVs and lab draws, foley catheter insertions and removals, splinting, BLS, providing patient care and comfort, and so on. Techs are not allowed to administer medications, give shots, or do nursing assessments. They also do not have ACLS/PALS etc. However, I think with a little additional training, EMTs could do most of these things in 99.9999% of cases within the primary care setting.
Following is my proposed 1 semester, 15 credit hour program allowing EMT-Basics to become EMT-Practitioners and work essentially as "nurses" - with all nursing privileges - in any primary care setting. (NOTE: PRIMARY CARE SETTING ONLY!!!!)
EMT-Prac 100: Basics of Chemistry (2 credits)
EMT-Prac 102: Administering Meds as Ordered (2 credits)
EMT-Prac 103: Knowing if a Med Order Looks Wrong (1 credit)
EMT-Prac 105: Fundamentals of Nursing Assessment for Primary Care
(3 credits)
EMT-Prac 110: ACLS/PALS Certification (2 credits)
EMT-Prac 200: EMT-Practitioner Clinical (5 credits - 225 hours of experience in a primary care clinical setting)
Please show your support! This may be the answer we're looking for in terms of solving the primary care nursing shortage. I've worked with many, many good EMTs and I know they could probably do just as well as primary care nurses in 99.999% of cases with just a little bit of additional training. Plus they'll probably cost a couple bucks an hour less than an RN, saving money for practices and for patients! Everyone wins!!!!

perhaps you should do some research on the differences in EMT basics as opposed to Paramedics. They are quite vast in their knowledge and certification requirements. I have been an EMT-B for ten years and having just completed nursing school and started working as a nurse I can tell you that the foundation of knowledge needed to work as a "nurse" doesn't exist in that EMT-B curriculum. Even as a paramedic there is a major difference in how we are taught to do skills and the critical thinking involved, not that paramedics can't do what nursed do, but its a different way of thinking and responding to situations.

Oh yeah and with your idea not everybody wins... us nurses would be out of work if they could send an EMT to school for a semester to be a "practitioner". Who in the world would want to hire us when, just like you said, they could get the job done for less money? A petition like that would just be shooting ourselves in the foot, not to mention devaluing our education and the job we do on a daily basis. :twocents:

Mr. Hat · May 27, 2008

Oh, and EMT-Basics can't do IVs, blood draws, EKGs, and foleys.

They sure as heck can at my hospital and the other dozen or so within our system....