I got into a debate with a high school friend on FB (I have since hidden his posts since I can't see his politics without raising my blood pressure) about this last summer.
I posted a link to an article about a girl sent home because she was wearing a sundress with spaghetti straps. Yes, she was out of dress code, but my point was that the dress code is overly restrictive and leads to body shaming for young women.
His argument was that men are biologically hard wired to look at women's bodies.
My argument was that why are we teaching our young women that they need to cover up instead of teaching our young men not to ogle.
I lost him when I asked "At what point does the man assume responsibility? When a young woman is on the stand being asked what she was wearing and if she'd been drinking?" He didn't see the connection.
They are adults in college. We are talking about 14 year old girls that look and carry themselves like 22 year olds. Yet most of them haven't a clue. Big difference.
How about the 18 year olds that are seniors that are held to the same standards and yet not when they go to college 3 months later?
I had a college lab teacher force a dress code on the women. Everyone hated that class. Our high school tried to do away with pockets in jackets and hoodies so we didn't cheat on tests. I almost had to call my parents because my flannel top had a pocket on my chest. Apparently teacher thought I was going to hide a cell phone in my boob
I can't accept that it's about instinct. There are cultures that function where women do not cover their breasts at all. Modern society has over sexualized women's' bodies. As a result, young girls want to emphasize what they have been shown will garner them attention and young boys aren't always taught that staring/commenting/ogling a woman's body objectifies her. The issue is deeper than a dress code.
I tend to agree with babyNP. If kids aren't taught to control themselves, and to not expect a woman to take responsibility for our behavior, in junior high and high school they're not suddenly going to recognize that women aren't merely sexual objects in college.
But I don't work in schools and don't have kids, I'm just speaking as a guy. The charge that men are "wired" for their bad behavior - most often used by men to excuse themselves without making any effort - is generally insulting. It's bad understanding of both biology and psychology. There are a lot of things we're "wired" for that we don't do. Thomas Hobbes wrote about the nature of man, and how in a natural state (free of the constraints and benefits of society) we exist in "continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." We are wired to hunt and kill and steal and do whatever it takes to survive. If the majority of us can suppress those urges, not staring at cleavage should be no problem.
I honestly don't disagree with the sentiment that there's a time and a place for things (as much as I like to play devil's advocate). And honestly, I agree that short shorts, sheer clothing, and underwear are not appropriate for school (or work for that matter). I just wish we didn't put the burden on girls, and as society didn't set them up for failure. There are so so many other issues at hand that I think are more important. Especially in our schools, and especially in how we treat how girls and boys in education.
Clearly, everyone missed the post where I said the boys are spoken to ad nauseam.
The boys don't break the dress code.
And I don't see how talking to a girl about the dress code is setting them up for failure. It depends on how it's done.
But, really, what do I know?
I did see your post and I'm glad it's being addressed in your school. I haven't seen any boys around here talked to about this (I also don't work at the HS level)
Unbalanced dress codes are a symptoms of bigger problems. The "no tank tops" rule was not so boys would wear a t-shirt under their basketball jersey (though I'm glad they do- armpit hair grosses me out) and they are called out when they break it.
I definitely think it is right for both boys and girls to be modest. My and my sisters dress modestly, and so do my brothers. We are careful in how we dress, and my brothers will "bounce" their eyes if they see immodesty outside the home.
I agree that both parties are responsible for their actions.
I don't think we are setting women up for failure, though. How many times have I heard a woman gently asked in a professional environment to please dress more professionally, "Its not my fault, guys just need to not stare at me; its their problem".
Really?!!!
We just covered in class standards for dressing for an interview. To actually think about it, kids are being set up for failure in the professional work environment when they are not taught the right way to dress and carry themselves. The workplace is going to expect far more from them, depending on where they work.
Well kidz, look what you started! Our school has a dress code and it works about as well as everyone else's. As long as the decision is left to parents and kids the dress code will be broken. I sooooo wish we had uniforms here. The dynamics working here are allover the map. I think I read the previous posts but I could have missed something and this could have been answered already - but what is the reason a teenage girl, or any other woman, would wear something provocative or unusual other than to attract attention? Come on now be honest...and don't hit too hard; you know how sensitive I am
I agree that nothing should be see through but bra straps happen. I wear tank tops all summer long and there is no way I'm wearing a strapless bra with them. What's more distracting-- My bra strap or me yanking a bra back into place every 3-4 minutes?
Well kidz, look what you started! Our school has a dress code and it works about as well as everyone else's. As long as the decision is left to parents and kids the dress code will be broken. I sooooo wish we had uniforms here. The dynamics working here are allover the map. I think I read the previous posts but I could have missed something and this could have been answered already - but what is the reason a teenage girl, or any other woman, would wear something provocative or unusual other than to attract attention? Come on now be honest...and don't hit too hard; you know how sensitive I am
And that is their right to attract attention, as a woman, or not in school, on their own time. If they own it, it is their right. And it's not the right of every man (or woman) to goggle. Sometimes goggling is what is sought after. Sometimes not.
We can't lump it all into women do this so men react this way. It's a balance.
These aren't women and men, however.
But like I said, the other day with the see through shirt and bra, in school? No. Sorry.
I broke dress code all the time.
Uniforms for both boys and girls, khakis and polos, would solve the issue.
babyNP., APRN
1,923 Posts
How about the 18 year olds that are seniors that are held to the same standards and yet not when they go to college 3 months later?