That is, more sciences/maths in addition to the microbiology/college algebra that is required of us to take to enter most nursing programs?
I find that nursing tends to be very easy to get into in terms of prerequisites and the laxity of GPA requirements. The problem with that is that we find that nursing programs don't necessarily attract the "cream of the crop"...it's almost like anyone can get into it (might not finish/may struggle to get through, but at the very least you can get in)
Another concern is that many nursing students struggle with basic math. So many nursing students don't understand dosage calculations...we were taught dosage under the dimensional analysis model. I took chemistry before changing my major to nursing and took AP chem in high school so dosage problems were a piece of cake to me because I already understood dimensional analysis and conversion. So many of my classmates (and many of the students that come to AllNurses for help) genuinely don't understand unit conversion and it's very telling. For many nursing students, their first exposure to unit conversion and long format calculations is through dosage calc.
One could even say that requiring chemistry/biology prior to nursing can foster a more thorough understanding of pharmacology and cellular function? Not saying we need to have physician-level knowledge of these subjects, but requiring a little more of nursing students can't hurt.
So.."I find nursing tends to be very easy to get into"...based on WHAT? What is your definition of "easy". You "find"? What evidence do you have? So everything you find is what is right? What is hard enough for you? If it is hard enough for you does that make it better? Based on what evidence? What research have you done that shows there should be different pre reqs to get into nursing school that will what? What is the goal? Are saying different pre reqs will eventually lead to better patient outcomes? I have been a nurse since 2006 with my BSN. Are you saying if I had taken a couple extra classes in 2005 I would provide better outcomes to my patients? Please provide evidence. "one could say".....based on WHAT??
I live in Arizona and my program was competitive. I got in the first try, but not everybody who applied this term was accepted and there is NO waiting list. I know some people who would kill to be on a waiting list right now instead of just hearing no.
This was directed at FutureRN101 (I forgot to hit quote).
None of the community colleges are competitive, so they should apply there then! I cannot afford to go to ASU or GCU which are competitive. I have considered (and still considering) a CEP program through community college which would also be competitive and I'd likely get in much much quicker. I get some pell grant $$ but never enough to cover even two classes, so I'm basically going to be paying out of pocket for nursing school, and adding an additional $1200 per semester to that cost for a CEP program, plus another $2400 in the summer for the CEP is just not doable for me. I don't really agree with the waiting list method. I think it lets in people that probably won't make it through nursing school anyways. I know some people think it's great, I personally don't agree with it. But like I said, I'm kinda stuck. I have to spread out the costs of my education so I will have to do my associates and then go for RN-bsn bridge most likely. At the moment, I just cannot foresee making the CEP costs work for me and my family.
I would say that for a BSN program, the pre requisites are bare minimum to prepare students for that programs coursework. Personally, I love Science and would have loved to take some more in depth classes (cell bio, genetics, immunology etc.) The program I'm going into (ADN) is no longer competitive and everyone who meets the VERY basic requirements (passing TEAS and 2.5 GPA) will be granted entry eventually. I'm interested to see what type of class this draws, and furthermore what the retention rates of the class are.
The reason I'm choosing ADN is for financial reasons. I will be able to complete the ADN program and then bridge with an RN-BSN or RN-MSN program afterwords for less money than going straight for my Bachelor's. I truly don't think that Associate degree's will be sufficient in the future of nursing. With an explosion of clinical knowledge and the ever tedious and changing national healthcare system I believe higher degrees (with min being BSN) should be required.
TL;DR
I would like to see nursing education eventually shift to a heavier science/math load. After all, more education never hurt anyone!
For my BSN pre-reqs, intro to biology was required before one could take microbiology. How can you understand microbio without bio? I feel the standards are high enough as they are. I'd like to see the ADN eliminated, though. There is research that BSN-nurses have better patient outcomes. They wouldn't let me teach kindergarten with an associates, but for some reason it's good enough for nursing?
I agree with the posters who say what we need is more clinical time.
For my BSN pre-reqs, intro to biology was required before one could take microbiology. How can you understand microbio without bio? I feel the standards are high enough as they are. I'd like to see the ADN eliminated, though. There is research that BSN-nurses have better patient outcomes. They wouldn't let me teach kindergarten with an associates, but for some reason it's good enough for nursing?
I agree with the posters who say what we need is more clinical time.
For my BSN pre-reqs, intro to biology was required before one could take microbiology. How can you understand microbio without bio? I feel the standards are high enough as they are. I'd like to see the ADN eliminated, though. There is research that BSN-nurses have better patient outcomes. They wouldn't let me teach kindergarten with an associates, but for some reason it's good enough for nursing?
I agree with the posters who say what we need is more clinical time.
One trailblazing school is only offering a MSN bridge for RN's. Apparently BSN is no longer good enough.
Specializes in mental health / psychiatic nursing.
It perhaps depends on the school and program as to how much math and hard science courses students have to take before applying to the nursing program. Most of the ones that I've looked at though do require both math and science though. The general list seems to be: college algebra (or higher), statistics, biology, anatomy and physiology I & II, microbiology, general chemistry, organic & biochemistry, nutrition, psychology, lifespan psychology, and english. These are the minimums, there isn't anything that says we as pre-nursing students have to stop here, and I'd imagine that those who challenge themselves to take additional classes in a variety of subject areas both have strong applications to nursing programs and may find nursing school itself easier where their additional knowledge overlaps with nursing skills. Given how competitive nursing school already is, the number who do not complete pre-requisites and the fact that these courses already take at least 1-2 years to complete when studying full time makes me think that we don't really need more. Nursing is not a graduate start program like medicine - where 4 years of undergraduate work are need in order to complete all the pre-requisites to even apply.
It perhaps depends on the school and program as to how much math and hard science courses students have to take before applying to the nursing program. Most of the ones that I've looked at though do require both math and science though. The general list seems to be: college algebra (or higher), statistics, biology, anatomy and physiology I & II, microbiology, general chemistry, organic & biochemistry, nutrition, psychology, lifespan psychology, and english. These are the minimums, there isn't anything that says we as pre-nursing students have to stop here, and I'd imagine that those who challenge themselves to take additional classes in a variety of subject areas both have strong applications to nursing programs and may find nursing school itself easier where their additional knowledge overlaps with nursing skills. Given how competitive nursing school already is, the number who do not complete pre-requisites and the fact that these courses already take at least 1-2 years to complete when studying full time makes me think that we don't really need more. Nursing is not a graduate start program like medicine - where 4 years of undergraduate work are need in order to complete all the pre-requisites to even apply.
This.
I also forgot to add that psychology, development psychology and abnormal psychology, along with three maths, stats, 2 A& P bio courses, micro, 2 Chemistries, Biochemistry, Two English courses- one which included how to do research paper writing in APA Styles, Sociology, Philosophy (2 required, one was ethics) and my electives were three language courses (Spanish) as total, along with my nursing courses; and each of my pre-req's was enough of a base to go on to succeed in my BSN studies; my clinical hours were pretty intensive as well.
Granted, I don't know what other programs are established across 50 states; I'm sure we have to take into account that any clinical hours lacking are due to the proliferated "commercial colleges" that are out.
I was required to take chemistry (agree learning dimensional analysis made med calculations a breeze for me in nursing school) prior to nursing school, along with statistics, microbiology, A&P I and II, and also had bio 1 and 2 (though those weren't required). As far as math goes, I suck at it, always have, always will. That didn't prevent me from making 100% on all medical calculations exams throughout nursing school. While some students had to retake the med calculations exam here in there, we never lost a student to a med calc exam.
No, I don't think the requirements for nursing school is too lax, and it's not THAT easy to get in.
I also forgot to add that psychology, development psychology and abnormal psychology, along with three maths, stats, 2 A& P bio courses, micro, 2 Chemistries, Biochemistry, Two English courses- one which included how to do research paper writing in APA Styles, Sociology, Philosophy (2 required, one was ethics) and my electives were three language courses (Spanish) as total, along with my nursing courses; and each of my pre-req's was enough of a base to go on to succeed in my BSN studies; my clinical hours were pretty intensive as well.
Granted, I don't know what other programs are established across 50 states; I'm sure we have to take into account that any clinical hours lacking are due to the proliferated "commercial colleges" that are out.
I'm from where Lady is from as well, and I am taking most of the same prereqs. (I don't have to take Biochem or a second Chem.) I'd like to think all of those courses as enough!
My school requires Biology, Chemistry, Physiology, Microbiology, and Anatomy along with English as pre-reqs. These classes do not include all the classes required for GE. It takes 3 full years, at full time to complete everything just to apply to the program. Everyone in my program has a very high GPA and there are people who still struggle at math not because they are stupid, but because not all schools teach dimensional analysis. I found that for some problems like medical calculations and straight conversions it works great, but for more difficult word problems it can be confusing and make those problems harder especially if the problems have erroneous information.
Our program gets about 500-600 applicants each year for 120 spots. I feel lucky and privileged to have gotten in on my first try. There are many people who have applied more than once and still are waiting. I think all programs differ depending on where you live and the size of the population. I am in CA so we have lot of people and lots of them want to get into nursing.
So what I am saying is your experience is not everyone's experience and if you were to go to another area you might find the opposite.
windsurfer8, BSN, RN
1,387 Posts
So.."I find nursing tends to be very easy to get into"...based on WHAT? What is your definition of "easy". You "find"? What evidence do you have? So everything you find is what is right? What is hard enough for you? If it is hard enough for you does that make it better? Based on what evidence? What research have you done that shows there should be different pre reqs to get into nursing school that will what? What is the goal? Are saying different pre reqs will eventually lead to better patient outcomes? I have been a nurse since 2006 with my BSN. Are you saying if I had taken a couple extra classes in 2005 I would provide better outcomes to my patients? Please provide evidence. "one could say".....based on WHAT??