Do you think nursing programs can benefit from more rigorous prerequisites?

Miss.LeoRN · Sep 7, 2014

Have you visited the pre-nursing forums at all? There are plenty of higher level pre-req's for Nursing classes. I don't know where you're getting your information from. Perhaps just your program is lax? Most programs require Biology before you can even take A&P. Some programs require chemistry, personally I don't think chemistry is all THAT important. There's only a few concepts of it you will need to know for nursing.

Just because a program might only require a 3.0 (which is a B, which is above average for grading purposes. Maybe you need to brush up on what grades mean), or lower, doesn't mean you actually get in only having a 3.0. Most people going into nursing schools generally don't have less than a 3.5, which is perfectly acceptable a GPA.

Also, you come off with a very elitist attitude. I'd be careful with that. You just told everyone who hasn't had to take Chemistry classes, and might have had less than a 4.0 they're not worth being in Nursing. You're no better than any other student who was accepted into a nursing program just because you can do something 'easier' or 'more readily' than someone else, or because you think the way they do something is somehow lacking.

**NICU Guy, BSN, RN** · Sep 7, 2014

I find that nursing tends to be very easy to get into in terms of prerequisites and the laxity of GPA requirements. The problem with that is that we find that nursing programs don't necessarily attract the "cream of the crop"...it's almost like anyone can get into it (might not finish/may struggle to get through, but at the very least you can get in)

What school are you going to? Because there are many students that would love to find a school that is easy to get into and has lax GPA requirements.

I guarantee that a majority of nursing students would not say that their prerequisites were easy. Nor would they say that it was easy to get into nursing school. Most schools (except for-profit) are extremely competitive and students that are accepted have very high GPAs. The reason that some students struggle is that nursing school exams are application and not comprehension. You can't memorize a fact for a test then forget about it. That concept is carried over later in the semester, to other classes you are currently taking, and future semesters. In addition, medical terminology can be similar to a foreign language.

While dosage calculations can be difficult for some, not everyone has trouble with them. I took at least six math tests in my program and everyone in my cohort passed the required 90-95% accuracy ( percentage depended on the class).

One could even say that requiring chemistry/biology prior to nursing can foster a more thorough understanding of pharmacology and cellular function? Not saying we need to have physician-level knowledge of these subjects, but requiring a little more of nursing students can't hurt.

Most schools require Chemistry and Microbiology in their prerequisites prior to entering nursing school and most students receive an A or B in those classes.

FutureRN101 · Sep 7, 2014

I WISH my local community colleges were competitive....I'd actually have a chance of getting in sooner than 2 years from now! Unfortunately, the CC's here (az) are literally do the pre-reqs, get on the waitlist and wait til it's your turn. :/ with my gpa being 4.0 I certainly wish it was a competitive list and not just a wait for your number to be called sort of thing.

firstinfamily, RN · Sep 7, 2014

When I achieved my ADN we had a class in dosage calculation, when I worked on my BSN we took organic Chemistry, however after that year the next class of BSN students were requried to take the same chemistry that the chemistry majors were taking, a much higher level than what I had taken!!!! Here in the part of MD where I live nursing students have to take so many prerequisites that they sometimes get discouraged before they can even get into the nursing classes. They have to maintain a high GPA to get into the nursing programs!! I think nursing students need more clinical time than anything else. All the theory in the world, and all the prereq. do not prepare them for the real world of nursing, where as a few more weeks of clinical assignments with more independent participation would benefit them greatly.

SoldierNurse22, BSN, RN · Sep 7, 2014

OP, I think I understand what you're saying. Many colleges I looked into back in high school had watered-down sciences intended for nursing majors. They were courses that were a few notches down from the "real deal" sciences. That isn't to say they weren't difficult, but they weren't as in-depth as, say, the classes required of pre-med students.

The college I eventually chose required nurses to attend the same sciences as pre-med majors. The argument was that nurses, as frontline caregivers, need to know the same sciences as our physician counterparts. I am very glad that I didn't attend a college that had courses such as "(Name your science) for Nursing" or "(Name another science) for health professions" as I'd feel cheated and in some ways lesser than the physicians who took the harder and more rigorous classes. That and pathophysiology and the disease processes I'd learn about in later classes made a whole lot of sense with a solid base in organic chem, biochem, advanced A&P, etc...

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Sep 7, 2014

I guess it must be my area, but the pre-req's for health students are also for the "hard-science" majors at most of the universities; also Biology and Chemistry IS required, along with three maths, and stats is required prior to entering a BSN program; some programs require Biochemistry as well.

How do I know? When I transferred in to a university for a quick semester, I was talking Chemistry with Pre-Med and Chemistry Majors, along with Pre-Nursing Majors; also when I was taking my pre-req's at my CC; I compared all the area's nursing programs; most want Biochem along with A & P (2 classes of Bio) and Chemistry (two classes) three mags, then Stats; I also have an Ivy League nursing program in my area; they are pretty much across the board in specific sciences, maths and specific humanities (philosophy, ethics, specific histories, foreign language) and "acceptable" electives (genetics, and the like) that would be accepted into their program; only few "art" classes were accepted, and more "science" was accepted instead.

If more curriculums were similar across the board, it would make for a uniform practice; unfortunately, until there is a decrease in these "fly by night" corporations looking to cash in on nursing education, then those issues would decrease in existence.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Sep 7, 2014

In my experience dosage calculations require only a little algebra and nowadays we have smart pumps that automatically calculate the correct dose as well as pharmacy. So I don't know how often dosage calculations are even done outside of ICU.

roser13, ASN, RN · Sep 7, 2014

Have you visited the pre-nursing forums at all? There are plenty of higher level pre-req's for Nursing classes. I don't know where you're getting your information from. Perhaps just your program is lax? Most programs require Biology before you can even take A&P. Some programs require chemistry, personally I don't think chemistry is all THAT important. There's only a few concepts of it you will need to know for nursing.
Just because a program might only require a 3.0 (which is a B, which is above average for grading purposes. Maybe you need to brush up on what grades mean), or lower, doesn't mean you actually get in only having a 3.0. Most people going into nursing schools generally don't have less than a 3.5, which is perfectly acceptable a GPA.
Also, you come off with a very elitist attitude. I'd be careful with that. You just told everyone who hasn't had to take Chemistry classes, and might have had less than a 4.0 they're not worth being in Nursing. You're no better than any other student who was accepted into a nursing program just because you can do something 'easier' or 'more readily' than someone else, or because you think the way they do something is somehow lacking.

FWIW, I do not detect an elitist attitude from OP. In fact I agree with his/her assertion that a greater degree of basic science/math-algebra knowledge should come to the table with the average nursing school applicant. OP has not remotely attempted to tell anyone that they're "not worth being in Nursing," whatever that means.

Offensive post, all around.

Emergent, RN · Sep 7, 2014

Hello, drug calculations are actually pre-algebra sort of stuff. I use the cross multiply trick, it works like a charm. That is the only math I've ever used in my 20+ years of nursing. Nurses don't need higher math, but solid skills in Jr high mathematics.

For my ADN prereqs I was required to do chemistry, which was a prereq for micro, and anatomy, which was a prereq for physiology. I needed psychology, sociology, oral arts, English comp, Intermediate Algebra, what else, I can't remember. I feel like all those courses were useful, although sociology mainly to teach political correctness. Oral arts (public speaking) is good for people like me who suck at it, I'm still not all that great at giving report, but it helps. English comp is good for improving writing skills. The sciences are paramount.

klone, MSN, RN · Sep 7, 2014

Yes, I absolutely think nursing programs, as well as the prerequisites, could be more rigorous.

Maybe if that were the case, there wouldn't be so many people who have to take the NCLEX three, four, or more times before they pass.

Pangea Reunited, ASN, RN · Sep 8, 2014

In my experience dosage calculations require only a little algebra and nowadays we have smart pumps that automatically calculate the correct dose as well as pharmacy. So I don't know how often dosage calculations are even done outside of ICU.

It's good to do at least a rough calculation in your head. Pharmacy is great, but they do make mistakes. Machines are fallible, too.